Reason Many Say AFA Is Waiting To File (NMB Replacement)

[LukeAisleWalker]

I found this link on AFA's Facebook site.
It's an interesting read:

http://www.averagejoeinc.com/newstoday.htm

excerpt:

Read Van de Water served under Richard Anderson and other Northwest Airlines executives who now lead Delta Air Lines from 1991 until 1997. During that time she served as Legislative Counsel and Director of Government Affairs.

Mrs. Van de Water left Northwest Airlines in 1997 and joined the lobbying firm Business Roundtable as the legislative counsel for international trade and investment.

Mrs. Van de Water lobbied for Northwest Airlines in 1999. Northwest Airlines spent $2.8 million on the lobbying efforts of 12 individuals including Mrs. Read Van de Water.

Mr. Mark Van de Water is the spouse of Mrs. Read Van de water, he is employed by Baker, Donelson, Bearman, Caldwell & Berkowitz, P.C., a lobbying firm that specializes in many sectors including Aviation/Aircraft/Airlines. Mr. Van de Water joined this firm in 2007 as a Senior Public Policy Advisor. From 1998 to 2006 this firm received $1.75 million from Northwest Airlines for their efforts.

 

[Dignity]

I found this link...

two questions..

1) is she directly involved at NWA at any level today?

2) does she have a role today or a planned role(known at this time) in the future at DAL?

if those are both no, I question conflict of interest?

clearly she had a role in the past but does that exist today?

 

[dapoes]

two questions..

1) is she directly involved at NWA at any level today?

2) does she have a role today or a planned role(known at this time) in the future at DAL?

if those are both no, I question conflict of interest?

clearly she had a role in the past but does that exist today?

The answer to both of your questions is no. AFA justs wants her out of the way hoping that if they loses again they will have a more favorable appeal. Its very transparent to the reasons why.

She cant change the RLA rules so they are simply wasting their time.

 

[Dignity]

The answer to both of your questions is no.

I personally do not think there is a conflict of interest at this time..unless she clearly has a role at either airline today.

AFA justs wants her out of the way hoping that if they loses again they will have a more favorable appeal. Its very transparent to the reasons why.

that is just a personal opinion

She cant change the RLA rules so they are simply wasting their time.

I think the focus is on the wrong people..in this case...person...some are focusing so much attention on her.. when they should be turning the attention to those who will actually vote..(the ones being turned off daily)..

 

[Dignity]

removing her from her current position will not change someone's mind..who has it already made up.. why is this not being considered? they can replace her and someone will still either..

1) not participate(in a 50 percent plus 1.. count as a No)

or

2) vote No.

 

[jalbalpa]

Dignity, would you allow a convicted sex offender to be an elementary school teacher? What he/she did was in the past and we don't know that he/she will do it again.

Read left the private sector to join the most anti-labor administration in history. Who knows what she will do after the NMB. I would not be surprised to see her at Delta after its all said and done.

Do you take your chances now and face the Delta anti-union campaign and management friendly NMB. Or do you hold out, risk losing a few supporters...get a guarantee that Delta will not be able to interfear and play on an even playing field?

 

[Dignity]

Read left the private sector to join the most anti-labor administration in history. Who knows what she will do after the NMB. I would not be surprised to see her at Delta after its all said and done

that is not a conflict of interest that is just a personal opinion

Do you take your chances now and face the Delta anti-union campaign and management friendly NMB.

it wouldnt change my decision either way..(I am sure many feel that way too!)

Or do you hold out, risk losing a few supporters..

sometimes I think, some are really concerned about having to go back on line and push a Beverage cart again...the "hold out".. obviously some dont have enough faith in our group to do the right thing and vote Yes..

get a guarantee that Delta will not be able to interfear and play on an even playing field?

to some the playing field will never be even(a personal perception), that is why you have to simply focus on the people who make the actual decisions..and move forward..

 

[LukeAisleWalker]

I offer this disclaimer for you, Dignity, as the following is definitely a personal opinion.
(BTW, sometimes I think you get personal opinions and opinions based on facts mixed up--like your reply to Jal's claim that the Bush Admin was the most anti-labor was an opinion---I think that's pretty much been corroborated just as his Ammin was terrible for the environment, but that's ok...my opinion that you confuse opinions and facts sometimes..even that's just another personal opinion...I digress..)

I think that this vote is going to be incredibly close. AFA knows it and Delta knows it. AFA is playing the cards they were dealt and since Obama won in Nov, they got dealt a better hand, so-to-speak. The snag in their (AFA's) planning is that Obama has so much more on his plate with our failing and floundering economy and he has just not gotten around to Van De Water's replacement.
If the election is within a couple of points, you may see challenges, calls for revotes and the like. This is another reason why AFA is waiting for a labor-friendly replacement to Ms.Van DeWater. I actually think this is more relevant than the fact that she worked for NW 12 years ago ,although I think there is a conflict of interest. She may be the most lovely person and have a lot of integrity but it doesn't look good and even if McCain won and she stayed on, she should recuse herself from any NMB dealings with Northwest...again a PERSONAL OPINION.

 

[Dignity]

I offer this disclaimer for you, Dignity, as the following is definitely a personal opinion.
(BTW, sometimes I think you get personal opinions and opinions based on facts mixed up--like your reply to Jal's claim that the Bush Admin was the most anti-labor was an opinion---I think that's pretty much been corroborated just as his Ammin was terrible for the environment, but that's ok...my opinion that you confuse opinions and facts sometimes..even that's just another personal opinion...I digress..)

ok..why are we starting to discuss the Bush Administration?

I think that this vote is going to be incredibly close. AFA knows it and Delta knows it.

I actually agree, more than likely a couple of hundred people (either way) will be the ones who ultimately decide it all!

AFA is playing the cards they were dealt and since Obama won in Nov, they got dealt a better hand, so-to-speak.

but that doesnt actually change someone's mind if it is already made up..

The snag in their (AFA's) planning is that Obama has so much more on his plate with our failing and floundering economy and he has just not gotten around to Van De Water's replacement.

correct. He does have a lot on his plate and waiting around for a replacement (if that is the case) may not be the best hand to play at this time...

If the election is within a couple of points, you may see challenges, calls for revotes and the like.

thats actually not an "if" there will be challenges..however it is decided.. either for or not at this time..

This is another reason why AFA is waiting for a labor-friendly replacement to Ms.Van DeWater.

that still will not change someone's mind..

I actually think this is more relevant than the fact that she worked for NW 12 years ago ,although I think there is a conflict of interest.

if she plays zero part today..or does not have any role in either company...

its not an actual conflict of interest rather than a personal opinion.

She may be the most lovely person and have a lot of integrity but it doesn't look good and even if McCain won and she stayed on, she should recuse herself from any NMB dealings with Northwest...again a PERSONAL OPINION.

that is actually irrelevant if she is nice or not, the bottom line is simply we should be voting or at least having seniority integration meetings.

I want to see our Scope protected..do they not trust us to do the right thing and vote yes?

 

[Kev3188]

She cant change the RLA rules so they are simply wasting their time.

Sure didn't stop her from trying, though...

Read left the private sector to join the most anti-labor administration in history. Who knows what she will do after the NMB. I would not be surprised to see her at Delta after its all said and done.

I wouldn't be surprised, either. Come to think of it, I wonder if Elaine Chao will make her triumphant return, now that she's been ousted as Labor Secretary?

I think that this vote is going to be incredibly close. AFA knows it and Delta knows it. AFA is playing the cards they were dealt and since Obama won in Nov, they got dealt a better hand, so-to-speak. The snag in their (AFA's) planning is that Obama has so much more on his plate with our failing and floundering economy and he has just not gotten around to Van De Water's replacement.

I thought I read somewhere that his administration has to make something like 3000 appointments. Anyone else see that?

If the election is within a couple of points, you may see challenges, calls for revotes and the like.

And before the election, the vetting of lists, establishing class & craft (for the IAM), etc.

...,although I think there is a conflict of interest. She may be the most lovely person and have a lot of integrity but it doesn't look good and even if McCain won and she stayed on, she should recuse herself from any NMB dealings with Northwest...again a PERSONAL OPINION.

Absolutely a conflict of interest, and she should absolutely recuse herself.

if she plays zero part today..or does not have any role in either company...

She may not have a "direct" role in either company, but don;t think for a minute that she (or the rest of the NMB) don't have a huge say in how things turn out.

I want to see our Scope protected..do they not trust us to do the right thing and vote yes?

If you want your scope protected, be patient, and let the AFA take the time to do it right instead of just doing it fast. Remember, if the vote fails you have no scope.

 

[Dignity]

She may not have a "direct" role in either company, but don;t think for a minute that she (or the rest of the NMB) don't have a huge say in how things turn out.

Listen, I hear ya..or..um...read ya..

but if that is true...there is no conflict of interest if she does not have an actual role at either company..its just something that it is not..

If you want your scope protected, be patient, and let the AFA take the time to do it right instead of just doing it fast. Remember, if the vote fails you have no scope.

actually I am very patient person..but I try to be realistic.. in this case...at this point...it appears there is never going to be.. a right time to do the right thing..(especially while other employee groups have resolved their issues)
those who support have already made up their minds...those who do not have too...the issue is with that small group in between.. who is either undecided or simply have changed their minds...

sometimes...its best to show how effective someone may be, resolving issues timely...its an indicator of things to come...or simply... a real display of how it will take forever to obtain what is important..

they need to convince that small group in between to support them...and I hope Im wrong..but,

I think they have maybe.. already screwed up..

 

[jalbalpa]

Dignity, 20% are usually absolutely PRO and 20% are ANTI. The other 60% is a toss up.

So, we cant change the opinion of those 20% on each side...what we can do is change the minds of the 60% in the middle...or plevent Delta management from doing so as well by interfearing.

There are many appointments that Obama must make...just heard today that a nominations to the NMB should be coming VERY SOON. ;-) Thats all I am saying.


Kev, thanx for the input....100% on the mark!

One last thing Dignity...I agree...we must protect the scope clause!

 

[Dignity]

Dignity, 20% are usually absolutely PRO and 20% are ANTI. The other 60% is a toss up.

probably 40/40 and then 20 percent is the toss up..maybe? but thats an opinion!

So, we cant change the opinion of those 20% on each side...what we can do is change the minds of the 60% in the middle...or plevent Delta management from doing so as well by interfearing.

jalbalpa, sometimes its best to just explain a situation without the attempt to change someone's mind...

There are many appointments that Obama must make...just heard today that a nominations to the NMB should be coming VERY SOON. ;-) Thats all I am saying.

sometimes things unfold not exactly how someone expected..(I hope some have kept that in mind)

Kev, thanx for the input....100% on the mark!

There is really no such thing as 100 percent but in this case he is always pretty close to the mark..such as 90 percent or a good solid A.

One last thing Dignity...I agree...we must protect the scope clause!

yes that is true...but..one must also mentally prepare themselves that we might just in fact lose it all..
a very few do not believe we will have to do Adays...and I believe that yes we will be doing that...its all about just being prepared in the event something may happen...or may not..

I try very hard to keep a positive attitude, but my beliefs..or that gut feeling is telling me...be prepared for changes.

 

[dapoes]

Dignity, 20% are usually absolutely PRO and 20% are ANTI. The other 60% is a toss up.

So, we cant change the opinion of those 20% on each side...what we can do is change the minds of the 60% in the middle...or plevent Delta management from doing so as well by interfearing.

Opinion as you have zero facts to back it up.

There are many appointments that Obama must make...just heard today that a nominations to the NMB should be coming VERY SOON. ;-) Thats all I am saying.

Opinion as you have zero facts to back it up...again.

The truth is the current phone poll is being done just like what was done with AMFA. AFA is testing the waters to see if its really worth it, as they know more then a majority of Delta FA's will not go for AFA. In the end, dont be too surprised AFA calls it quits very soon...just like AMFA.

 

[jalbalpa]

The truth is the current phone poll is being done just like what was done with AMFA. AFA is testing the waters to see if its really worth it, as they know more then a majority of Delta FA's will not go for AFA. In the end, dont be too surprised AFA calls it quits very soon...just like AMFA.

Keep Wishing, this has been made the number 1 priority of AFA, CWA, and the AFL-CIO. Ed Sable and John Sweeney have come out and said that we will make this happen.

I guarantee you, there will be an election! And we will win!