Regional Elite Ground Handling Shutting Down

[Kev3188]

Thanks Kev. It seems RR works well for DL, all the DL employees I've dealt with have appeared to be happy, professional and competent they're much better than the UA employees and some of the CO employees (EWR especially). Here in BOS many of the RRs are college and graduate students as one would expect. They seem to work well and balance their school schedule with work.

There's several moving parts here, and I'll try to tie them all together...

The prototypical college student is one of the prime examples the company uses when peddling this program to all of us. The problem is that often when people are needed at work conflicts with their school schedule and vice versa. Remember, they've been promised that the company would work with them to create a schedule that works. So one of two things invariably occurs. First, they get the schedule they want, which may be a day shift, good days off, or other "prime" line. That undermines seniority, and causes heartburn amongst the benefitted employees. Second, they may have to actually work when the operation dictates it (more on that below), and then they're frustrated because they can't go to school-or at least take all the classes they need. Worse yet, it when there's a rebid in the middle of a term, which somehow manages to accomplish both those issues at the same time.

Wouldn't be a bad gig to get free travel passes to fly to visit friends and explore new places on their free time. Probably in FLL or TPA you'd have more retirees looking to supplement their retirement income.

This they do... Some of the guys on my crew have traveled more in the last year than I have in the last 15...

As for the compensation how much more are fulltimers paid?

Someone at TOS makes ~ double what a Ready Reserve does (base pay only).

It seems the $12 range would be competitive with other jobs in less desirable conditions like retail, restaurants, libraries, etc. Much better to work for DL and get NRSA passes than work at a restaurant and get occasional free food. That's just my opinion some may disagree.

Maybe, but it also depends where you are. If you have a choice between two jobs that pay ~ the same, and one is inside and climate controlled, and one is not, which do you pick? BTW, most restaurant pay minimum wage, and some states (including mine) pay servers less than that, on the assumption that they'll make it up in tips.

Used to be an airline competed against places like a utility company for workers. Now they compete with Target & Walgreens.I find that sad, and to be honest, it *does* manifest itself in the caliber of prospective hires that show up.

Seems the program gives DL flexibility to staff commensurate to flight schedule across seasons, days of week and time of day.

It's almost exclusively the latter now. For example, when I started at NW, the station I was in literally doubled in size during the summer. That doesn't really happen at DL. There's upgauges in equipment, and maybe an add or two, but on the whole, most cities more or less stay the same size flight number wise year-round. Back then, NW filled those huge leaps in activity with temporary upgrades, and/or TDY's. DL has done a decent job of optimizing the flight schedule, so in the line stations, the peaks and valleys aren't seasonal, but rather are hourly. There are huge bursts of activity, followed by a more steady pace, followed by another burst, etc. (Note: We don't have any of those mythical hours-long breaks people like to think we do. Just sayin'). Those banks are where the RR can best be utilized, but as noted above, that often conflicts with their expectations, and therefore, doesn't always happen.

The other piece to that is that in theory, they're supposed to augment the staffing to cover things like vacations, illness, OJI's, etc. That's not happening.

Sure some would prefer having all fulltime people yearound but that's just not reasonable. Plenty of stores, restaurants and other season businesses adjust staffing across seasons. Ever notice all the shops in the mall start hiring temporary help before Thanksgiving and Christmas? Beaches (unless its Manhattan Beach, CA I suppose), swimming pools, Disney, etc all have variable season staffing needs. DL is no different.

Totally get that. See my points above.

Variable staffing is okay, and makes sense... to a point...

 

[737823]

There's several moving parts here, and I'll try to tie them all together...

The prototypical college student is one of the prime examples the company uses when peddling this program to all of us. The problem is that often when people are needed at work conflicts with their school schedule and vice versa. Remember, they've been promised that the company would work with them to create a schedule that works. So one of two things invariably occurs. First, they get the schedule they want, which may be a day shift, good days off, or other "prime" line. That undermines seniority, and causes heartburn amongst the benefitted employees. Second, they may have to actually work when the operation dictates it (more on that below), and then they're frustrated because they can't go to school-or at least take all the classes they need. Worse yet, it when there's a rebid in the middle of a term, which somehow manages to accomplish both those issues at the same time.

Wow lots of info here thanks.

I can understand how that would be frustrating. Why can't DL set clear expectations schedule wise from the get go and hold people to it? I mean an airline is a 24/7/365 operation, they need people to work everyday at odd hours and on all holidays. Didn't you mention before that you worked fulltime or near fulltime while in school? That's a real accomplishment and must not have been easy. Don't the students know their schedules months in advance before each semester? I could see giving some flexibility for exam weeks but if you are dedicated to your academics working at DL may not be the match, to your point earlier.

Someone at TOS makes ~ double what a Ready Reserve does (base pay only).

Wow no wonder DL really wants to use RRs at the airports more.

Maybe, but it also depends where you are. If you have a choice between two jobs that pay ~ the same, and one is inside and climate controlled, and one is not, which do you pick? BTW, most restaurant pay minimum wage, and some states (including mine) pay servers less than that, on the assumption that they'll make it up in tips.

Yep I know that about restaurants in hindsight maybe that wasn't the best example. Maybe Starbucks or a cafe or something would have been a better example.

I know you work ramp but doesn't DL also use RRs for ACS? Sure seems at many of the stations I frequent they do. It also seems many of the agents at DTW are much younger looking and quite possibly ready reserves.

Used to be an airline competed against places like a utility company for workers. Now they compete with Target & Walgreens.I find that sad, and to be honest, it *does* manifest itself in the caliber of prospective hires that show up.

I only posted those examples in response to your post about ~$11.50/hour pay. You're obviously closer to things than me but the employees I see at DL airports seem much more sophisticated and professional than Target and Walgreens in my experience.

Josh

 

[737823]

Kev do some worry that the use of RRs will turn in to something like this?

http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2009/09/17/housekeepers_lose_hyatt_jobs_to_outsourcing/

When the housekeepers at the three Hyatt hotels in the Boston area were asked to train some new workers, they said they were told the trainees would be filling in during vacations.

On Aug. 31, staffers learned the full story: None of them would be making the beds and cleaning the showers any longer. All of them were losing their jobs. The trainees, it turns out, were employees of a Georgia company, Hospitality Staffing Solutions, who were replacing them that day.


The move to outsource the jobs of about 100 housekeeping employees at the Hyatt Regency Boston, Hyatt Regency Cambridge, and Hyatt Harborside at Logan International Airport is unusual in the hospitality industry, which counts on the housekeeping staff to help make sure hotel guests are comfortable.

Josh

 

[WorldTraveler]

Scheduling people w/ flexible schedules is always a hassle but unless you are willing to make a commitment to them for a certain number of hours, you can't expect them to block out all of the time that you might potentially use them.

There is no doubt that ready reserves save a whole lot of money - when you factor in that FT employees receive benefits, FT employees probably cost 3X or more what DL would pay for ready reserve people.
But RRs have few expectations about a career and are happy to put in a few years and then move on - which is exactly what DL wants so that they don't become high cost employees.

There is no doubt that lower seniority employees and ready reserves/DCI employees use their pass benefits VERY AGGRESSIVELY. But DL has long been more aggressive than other airlines in extending pass benefits as the means to help people overlook a lot of other "ills". Look at the Comair employee settlements as an example - sounds like many if not all of them will be able to retain DL pass benefits, perhaps for life. Retail stores, no matter how glamormous, can provide benefits that have the attraction to alot of people.

Kev,
Airlines have learned not to chase seasonal revenue unless there is a "matching" seasonal market somewhere else that can be used to redeploy the assets as they are moved back and forth. That is part of why DL said it isn't worth serving alot of seasonal markets in Europe that generate decent revenues for only 4 months per year - other than with 757s which can easily be redeployed on the domestic system.

---

I still believe that DL employees are more friendly that they have been in a long time - and the mere fact that DL's customer service stats continue to improve while other carriers are not - or are falling - shows me that DL is making the workplace better than it was in the past and better than it is for many competitors.

In a service business, it takes very little to demonstrate to a customer that they are important to your business - and also very little to send them away convinced you don't care.
It also makes it a whole lot easier to provide good customer service when the tools of your job are in place (which they are not for many UA employees right now) and also to run a reliable operation which makes it possible to take care of customers instead of fighting fires.
And DL is a sea of relative labor peace in an industry where labor discord is more the norm than the exception.

 

[Kev3188]

I can understand how that would be frustrating. Why can't DL set clear expectations schedule wise from the get go and hold people to it?

I don't know. Most guess is that they want to attract as many people as possible, and that may mean over promising and underdelivering. The applications still have boxes to check indicating a willingness to work any hours/days/holidays, but...

When I started, they made no bones about it. I was told I'd work the worst shifts, on the worst days.

Didn't you mention before that you worked fulltime or near fulltime while in school?

I worked FT, and took a full load of classes.

That's a real accomplishment and must not have been easy.

Thanks. It was definitely a logistical challenge.

Don't the students know their schedules months in advance before each semester?

Depends on the school, I suppose. Also, the schedules may be out, but the registration window may not coincide with the a rebid of work schedules (mine didn't, anyway)...

I know you work ramp but doesn't DL also use RRs for ACS?

They do indeed. On a pedantic note, the company uses "ACS" to refer to both the ramp and gate/ticket agents.

Kev do some worry that the use of RRs will turn in to something like this?

http://www.boston.co...to_outsourcing/



Josh

The concern in many places is either that the company will staff a station almost completely w/ready reserves, or that a handler like DGS will take over.

 

[737823]

I don't know. Most guess is that they want to attract as many people as possible, and that may mean over promising and underdelivering. The applications still have boxes to check indicating a willingness to work any hours/days/holidays, but...

When I started, they made no bones about it. I was told I'd work the worst shifts, on the worst days.

Kev, I think I can predict your answer but want to ask anyway. If DL management is circumventing seniority and giving junior RRs their preferred shifts what protections or recourse do you have? Short of pursuing HR or another management department what can be done? Although DL is now (largely) non-union I thought consistent with most other unions they still had a seniority system in place for bidding shifts, work locations, etc.

Josh

 

[Kev3188]

Kev, I think I can predict your answer but want to ask anyway. If DL management is circumventing seniority and giving junior RRs their preferred shifts what protections or recourse do you have?

None, really.

Although DL is now (largely) non-union I thought consistent with most other unions they still had a seniority system in place for bidding shifts, work locations, etc.

We still bid in seniority order, but we're bidding on a schedule management has created. Also, Regular employees and Ready Reserves bid on separate work schedules.

 

[REPUS]

Does any one have good information on DGS pay, PTO, Flight Beny. I was told lead pay is an extra 150 but DGS pays weekly. Is this 150 also weekly or bi...

I was with Comair then REAS and now?

 

[WorldTraveler]

Repus,
are you in a city where you know who has won the ground-handling contract?

 

[REPUS]

MIA, we assume but the politics here are holding things up

 

[WorldTraveler]

Unfortunately, I can't answer your specific pay/benefit questions w/ certainty so won't comment (hopefully someone who knows can answer) but keep us posted on what happens... we would like to know and do wish you the very best.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Kev, in the event that the IAM does get reelected at DL what do anticipate will happen to the RR program? Would they reach an agreement to keep the program but limit its growth and usage or do most want the program gone?

Josh

Josh,
although your question presents an answer that would be a matter of opinion, we already know that the IAM encourages RR. At Hawaiian airlines, the IAM entered into an agreement with Hawaiian airlines to bring RR to Hawaiian under the following conditions:
1. No benefits other than flight travel
2. $10 top out
3. RR would not be included under the regular part time cap of 45% part time
4. Have to pay full union dues.

The mutual agreement benefited management with the increased flexibility and it benefited the collective bargaining agent with the increase in dues. My assumption is that a similar arrangement would be at DL.

regards,

 

[Tim Nelson]

None, really.




We still bid in seniority order, but we're bidding on a schedule management has created. Also, Regular employees and Ready Reserves bid on separate work schedules.

Kev,
I talked to a few DL ramp employees who took a buyout here in ORD and today is their last day. The buyout number $120,000 together with some sorta medical tie in that draws from the money??? Didn't quite understand what they were talking about but can you elaborate? Also, heard about a pay raise and some other enhancements.

What is the situation over at DL? I heard that the IAM is organizing, is anyone else? Has Delta kept the pay/benefits fair? Normally, I wouldn't be as interested in DL pay as I am now since it seems that AMR has attached some sorta pay parity system to its fleet service agreement that becomes effective in 36 months and the thought of having union wages determined by Delta is troubling to me, especially in a downturn.

regards,

 

[Kev3188]

[font=Helvetica Neue'][background=rgb(255, 255, 255)]The early out had a couple of pieces to it, depending on what sort of seniority you have. The plan your friends were discussing is known internally as the "RMA plan," (retiree medical account), or "73 point" plan. To qualify, you had to be at least 50 yrs. old, have 18 years of vested service, or a combo of both adding up to more than 73.

Assuming one met that threshold, you were eligible for anywhere from 20-39 weeks severance (had to have 40+ years for the max, and the minimum was 20).

You were also eligible for a one-time, lump sum amount of money to be used for insurance premiums. Retirees will pay full COBRA rates. Depending on your age, the payout ranges from 30k-120k. The younger you are, the higher the amount, since the gap between now and becoming eligible for Medicare is longer.

It wouldn't surprise me at all to learn that many at ORD would qualify for the highest amounts in each category. There's lots of seniority there, especially on the NW side...

The insurance piece is funded via the government. DL applied for/received $29M to fund it, IIRC.

For ACS, the IAM is still actively organizing. Right now, it's focused on the ramp only. The F/A's have both IAM & a sort of AFA-TWU hybrid drives occurring.

We will receive another pay increase come 1/1/13. IMO, it's testament to the momentum of each group's card drives that his is occurring. The company knows it's both cheaper and effective to throw $$$ at the masses. The pay restoration is a step in the right direction; I certainly have no issue with it. My main reasons for continuing to be a labor activist here are the lack of scope, and consistently inconsistent way policies and procedures are applied. Not sure about any other newly announced enhancements.

When determining base rates, DL uses what they consider to be an "industry standard" amongst peer airlines. That might be okay too, except the carriers they pick/exclude don't always match that. [/background][/font]

 

[Tim Nelson]

[font=Helvetica Neue'][background=rgb(255, 255, 255)]The early out had a couple of pieces to it, depending on what sort of seniority you have. The plan your friends were discussing is known internally as the "RMA plan," (retiree medical account), or "73 point" plan. To qualify, you had to be at least 50 yrs. old, have 18 years of vested service, or a combo of both adding up to more than 73.

Assuming one met that threshold, you were eligible for anywhere from 20-39 weeks severance (had to have 40+ years for the max, and the minimum was 20).

You were also eligible for a one-time, lump sum amount of money to be used for insurance premiums. Retirees will pay full COBRA rates. Depending on your age, the payout ranges from 30k-120k. The younger you are, the higher the amount, since the gap between now and becoming eligible for Medicare is longer.

It wouldn't surprise me at all to learn that many at ORD would qualify for the highest amounts in each category. There's lots of seniority there, especially on the NW side...

The insurance piece is funded via the government. DL applied for/received $29M to fund it, IIRC.

For ACS, the IAM is still actively organizing. Right now, it's focused on the ramp only. The F/A's have both IAM & a sort of AFA-TWU hybrid drives occurring.

We will receive another pay increase come 1/1/13. IMO, it's testament to the momentum of each group's card drives that his is occurring. The company knows it's both cheaper and effective to throw $$$ at the masses. The pay restoration is a step in the right direction; I certainly have no issue with it. My main reasons for continuing to be a labor activist here are the lack of scope, and consistently inconsistent way policies and procedures are applied. Not sure about any other newly announced enhancements.

When determining base rates, DL uses what they consider to be an "industry standard" amongst peer airlines. That might be okay too, except the carriers they pick/exclude don't always match that. [/background][/font]

thanks Kev3188,
what is the top out pay right now? BTW, many from NW took this buyout in ORD. I want to say maybe 50 employees.

regards,