[blockquote]
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On 1/2/2003 10:13:58 AM UnitedChicago wrote:
B.N.:
I was directly responding to G4G5's scenario of a mechanic that is sick of working outside in the cold, etc. and that there are many jobs open to the mechanics.
I'm certainly not applying that to people who enjoy their jobs.
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[/blockquote]
You are missing the point, again. Why leave now?
Correct me if I am wrong but they have not agreed to wage concessions, so their pay checks are still the same. So why leave a job that you are happy doing for the same money you were making? in their world nothing has changed, so nobody is leaving, yet.
What they are saying is:
They are not going to do it for 13%+ less, loss of jobs and harsher work rules. Zippo for all the ESOP and give backs.
At that point you say, "no" and you take it to court. You spend as much time possible tying things up, until mgt either says forget it, we need to move on to something productive(like revenue), otherwise they can forget the DIP projections. Mgt needs to make nice with the A&P's.
If mgt decides they want to go after the IAM. Well, at that point forget it, the time to the DIP triggers will be upon us. The IAM leadership has already said no to the cuts, not once but twice(now and for the ATSB loan). Unless their is an IAM leadership change the current group of folks is not about to change their tune. So now you have adversary's working against each other, with a DIP gun held to their head.
The IAM digs it heals in. Around this time mgt decides that they will implement the court ordered wage cuts and start with the down sizing, closing of bases and layoffs all while they farm out the former IAM job's. The IAM counters with law suits, job actions, sick outs and strikes. If you are old enough to have been around for Eastern you can see where this is going to go.
The big difference between USAir and UAL is that the IAM decided that they want to be part of the recovery. You ask, why? IMHO it's because of the maintenance base locations(where the voting majority resides). They fully realize that in this economy they will have a difficult time replacing jobs in PIT and CLT(not impossible). UAL techs/the IAM on the otherhand dont feel that finding jobs of equal value in all of the high cost of living locations that UAL does it maintenance, will be a problem. Finding a large number of 60K jobs in PIT is harder then finding a large number in SFO/OAK/SJC. On the other hand cost of living is less in PIT/CLT so those folks, while they feel the pain, don't feel it quite to the extent that someone trying to get by in SFO/ORD does. Subequently they are more likly to accept a concessionary deal. The other thing the IAM realizes is that some airline will aquire the UAL assets and that the hanger and routes, will not go vacant and un used. While USAir has some valuable assets they are hardly the equal of UAL's. That will bring IAM jobs back to SFO/ORD, you can't say the same for PIT.
The problem with BK and the aviation industry is, it's the BK courts job to spread the pain around evenly. When in fact we all realize that the various groups within the airline are not of equal power. They are not equal stake holders. The FA's don't take part in ESOP but the IAM see's them giving back the same level of concessions. The pilots career projections are dependant upon UAL's survival, the IAM's is not. Why was their ESOP in the first place and who contributed and why?
IMHO, the other stake holders are going to have to pick up the financial slack because their livlyhoods depend on it, the tech's does not. Having seen this happen once already the other unions would be wise to have a plan to help UAL mgt come up with the additional concessions, in exchange for a greater piece of the recovery.
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On 1/2/2003 10:13:58 AM UnitedChicago wrote:
B.N.:
I was directly responding to G4G5's scenario of a mechanic that is sick of working outside in the cold, etc. and that there are many jobs open to the mechanics.
I'm certainly not applying that to people who enjoy their jobs.
----------------
[/blockquote]
You are missing the point, again. Why leave now?
Correct me if I am wrong but they have not agreed to wage concessions, so their pay checks are still the same. So why leave a job that you are happy doing for the same money you were making? in their world nothing has changed, so nobody is leaving, yet.
What they are saying is:
They are not going to do it for 13%+ less, loss of jobs and harsher work rules. Zippo for all the ESOP and give backs.
At that point you say, "no" and you take it to court. You spend as much time possible tying things up, until mgt either says forget it, we need to move on to something productive(like revenue), otherwise they can forget the DIP projections. Mgt needs to make nice with the A&P's.
If mgt decides they want to go after the IAM. Well, at that point forget it, the time to the DIP triggers will be upon us. The IAM leadership has already said no to the cuts, not once but twice(now and for the ATSB loan). Unless their is an IAM leadership change the current group of folks is not about to change their tune. So now you have adversary's working against each other, with a DIP gun held to their head.
The IAM digs it heals in. Around this time mgt decides that they will implement the court ordered wage cuts and start with the down sizing, closing of bases and layoffs all while they farm out the former IAM job's. The IAM counters with law suits, job actions, sick outs and strikes. If you are old enough to have been around for Eastern you can see where this is going to go.
The big difference between USAir and UAL is that the IAM decided that they want to be part of the recovery. You ask, why? IMHO it's because of the maintenance base locations(where the voting majority resides). They fully realize that in this economy they will have a difficult time replacing jobs in PIT and CLT(not impossible). UAL techs/the IAM on the otherhand dont feel that finding jobs of equal value in all of the high cost of living locations that UAL does it maintenance, will be a problem. Finding a large number of 60K jobs in PIT is harder then finding a large number in SFO/OAK/SJC. On the other hand cost of living is less in PIT/CLT so those folks, while they feel the pain, don't feel it quite to the extent that someone trying to get by in SFO/ORD does. Subequently they are more likly to accept a concessionary deal. The other thing the IAM realizes is that some airline will aquire the UAL assets and that the hanger and routes, will not go vacant and un used. While USAir has some valuable assets they are hardly the equal of UAL's. That will bring IAM jobs back to SFO/ORD, you can't say the same for PIT.
The problem with BK and the aviation industry is, it's the BK courts job to spread the pain around evenly. When in fact we all realize that the various groups within the airline are not of equal power. They are not equal stake holders. The FA's don't take part in ESOP but the IAM see's them giving back the same level of concessions. The pilots career projections are dependant upon UAL's survival, the IAM's is not. Why was their ESOP in the first place and who contributed and why?
IMHO, the other stake holders are going to have to pick up the financial slack because their livlyhoods depend on it, the tech's does not. Having seen this happen once already the other unions would be wise to have a plan to help UAL mgt come up with the additional concessions, in exchange for a greater piece of the recovery.
57 PM UnitedChicago wrote: 
