subject matter on the forum

[UnionAMT]

From a twenty year union organizer. You're building a nest in a tree that's being chopped down. Ladies and gentlemen of this forum, please forgive me if I offend anyone here. The U.S.A. is being fundamentally changed in a way that will render the rights of workers unattainable.Thus the ability of people such as yourself to organize unions for the purpose of attaining a contract and using your union's collective power to elect people in our state's and nation's capitals, that will represent the will of working Americans, is being taken away.

Please, what I suggest is that you not simply look at what a contract means to you, directly in your workplace. Because right now things seem pretty good to most, and so the idea of having a contract in hand doesn't seem that important. Rather, effective union organizers should be carrying to their rank and file brothers and sisters, the message of the importance of organized labor as a tool for positive social change in our country. As well as effecting our workplace in a way that will bring forth democracy in our working environment.

Also, you folks that are pro-union employees of Delta Airlines should come to realize that Delta has a presence on this forum that serves to redirect and start arguments over subject matter, for the purpose of "turning people off".

I'll welcome reply discussion that is within the light of this topic matter,for the purpose of advancing the cause of your labor rights, as well as the labor rights of Americans in general. I've associated myself with the International Brotherhood of Teamsters union over these years, and am in contact with them.

I do not,in any way shape or form associate with the IAM, the AFA, or any other union.

Please lets open this discussion.

 

[Bob Owens]

From a twenty year union organizer. You're building a nest in a tree that's being chopped down. Ladies and gentlemen of this forum, please forgive me if I offend anyone here. The U.S.A. is being fundamentally changed in a way that will render the rights of workers unattainable.Thus the ability of people such as yourself to organize unions for the purpose of attaining a contract and using your union's collective power to elect people in our state's and nation's capitals, that will represent the will of working Americans, is being taken away.

Please, what I suggest is that you not simply look at what a contract means to you, directly in your workplace. Because right now things seem pretty good to most, and so the idea of having a contract in hand doesn't seem that important. Rather, effective union organizers should be carrying to their rank and file brothers and sisters, the message of the importance of organized labor as a tool for positive social change in our country. As well as effecting our workplace in a way that will bring forth democracy in our working environment.

Also, you folks that are pro-union employees of Delta Airlines should come to realize that Delta has a presence on this forum that serves to redirect and start arguments over subject matter, for the purpose of "turning people off".

I'll welcome reply discussion that is within the light of this topic matter,for the purpose of advancing the cause of your labor rights, as well as the labor rights of Americans in general. I've associated myself with the International Brotherhood of Teamsters union over these years, and am in contact with them.

I do not,in any way shape or form associate with the IAM, the AFA, or any other union.

Please lets open this discussion.

Good luck, maybe we will see a drive by the mechanics soon.

While the AFA seemed to be the Logical choice for the FAs I think that trying to bring the IAM over was a blunder. I realize that the NWA guys had it already but what is the IAMs track record? Have they done something recently for the workers at United, USAIR or Northwest that would get the workers at Delta to say "Yea, I want that union so they could help us get the same thing"? The IAM was the first union to fold and do nothing(even accepted money from the company to sell the concessions) as USAIR used the bankruptcy courts to gut their contracts. Would a move to the IAM have helped consolidate the labor movement in this country?

Well they have their turn now, there are plenty of open contracts out there and they have a year to show the Delta workers what they can do, at carriers where they already collect dues.. The IBTs performance for the AMTs over at Continental was not impressive, lets see if they correct it at UAL.

I agree that the rights labor are being eroded but I believe a lot of the blame lies with the people at the top of these organizations who have gotten very comfortable with their six figure salaries and although they may comment on our pain they dont feel our pain. They tell us "not to make any trouble", don't do anything that would cause any sort of economic disruption and focus on the ballott box instead of the picket line to cure what ails us and ignore the fact that both dominant political parties are owned by the working mans opponent. MLK didnt win rights for his people by relying on the ballott box alone, strikes, boycotts and demonstrations are what made the difference. But then again MLK didnt position himself in an Ivory tower and speak down to his people from above, he was on the streets with them.

 

[FWAAA]

Please, what I suggest is that you not simply look at what a contract means to you, directly in your workplace. Because right now things seem pretty good to most, and so the idea of having a contract in hand doesn't seem that important. Rather, effective union organizers should be carrying to their rank and file brothers and sisters, the message of the importance of organized labor as a tool for positive social change in our country. As well as effecting our workplace in a way that will bring forth democracy in our working environment.

Having watched the rate of unionization among non-government employees fall dramatically over the past several decades, I've concluded that the bolded portion above is what turns off a lot of workers. Negotiating for higher pay some might accept, but "positive social change?" That rubs some people the wrong way.

On the AA forum there are several pro-union AA AMT mechanics who are more conservative than the typical union member and they have complained in posts about the political activity funded with their dues. Perhaps if unions spent more time and money on negotiating higher pay and less time and money on their PACs, non-government employees might embrace union membership more fully.

I'm a member of the AFT and I have colleagues who refuse to join precisely because they abhor the political activities of the union.

 

[DalMD88]

Good luck, maybe we will see a drive by the mechanics soon.

I would not hold my breath on that happening anytime soon. Back in 2001 there was a pretty good movement to get a vote for AMFA. I feel we were just a few months shy of petitioning until 9/11 hit. That really took the air out of the drive. Then the layoffs took away many of the yes voters leaving the bulk of the older hell no union group. With the NW merger we added about 3000 mechanics. Most were hired during the AMFA strike of '05. I doubt there are many pro union mechanics in that work group.

 

[UnionAMT]

Having watched the rate of unionization among non-government employees fall dramatically over the past several decades, I've concluded that the bolded portion above is what turns off a lot of workers. Negotiating for higher pay some might accept, but "positive social change?" That rubs some people the wrong way.

On the AA forum there are several pro-union AA AMT mechanics who are more conservative than the typical union member and they have complained in posts about the political activity funded with their dues. Perhaps if unions spent more time and money on negotiating higher pay and less time and money on their PACs, non-government employees might embrace union membership more fully.

I'm a member of the AFT and I have colleagues who refuse to join precisely because they abhor the political activities of the union.

I agree with you that most people are turned off by the idea of any of their dues money being used for political reasons. Unfortunately the reality is that the enemies of working Americans are politically involved to a high degree, and are working towards permanently silencing the people that work for a living in this world we live in. Power cedes nothing without a fight. Electing from what is presented to us from the republicans and democrats gives us people who are bought and payed for by special interests that are of the "international anti-democracy" variety. In fact, everyone should recognize that fact by now. Working Americans, in efect, are not participating in their own democratic system.

 

[UnionAMT]

Good luck, maybe we will see a drive by the mechanics soon.

While the AFA seemed to be the Logical choice for the FAs I think that trying to bring the IAM over was a blunder. I realize that the NWA guys had it already but what is the IAMs track record? Have they done something recently for the workers at United, USAIR or Northwest that would get the workers at Delta to say "Yea, I want that union so they could help us get the same thing"? The IAM was the first union to fold and do nothing(even accepted money from the company to sell the concessions) as USAIR used the bankruptcy courts to gut their contracts. Would a move to the IAM have helped consolidate the labor movement in this country?

Well they have their turn now, there are plenty of open contracts out there and they have a year to show the Delta workers what they can do, at carriers where they already collect dues.. The IBTs performance for the AMTs over at Continental was not impressive, lets see if they correct it at UAL.

I agree that the rights labor are being eroded but I believe a lot of the blame lies with the people at the top of these organizations who have gotten very comfortable with their six figure salaries and although they may comment on our pain they dont feel our pain. They tell us "not to make any trouble", don't do anything that would cause any sort of economic disruption and focus on the ballott box instead of the picket line to cure what ails us and ignore the fact that both dominant political parties are owned by the working mans opponent. MLK didnt win rights for his people by relying on the ballott box alone, strikes, boycotts and demonstrations are what made the difference. But then again MLK didnt position himself in an Ivory tower and speak down to his people from above, he was on the streets with them.

I hope that you and others that are reading this will bare with me for a moment. I want to try and explain something that has had a profound affect on my life. Hopefully it will answer your question, and give us all insight. My first organizing camapign was more than that. It was a revelation and a surprise. It revealed itself to be the most hands on democrat process that most of us will ever be in, and was for me both a surprise, because I didn't expect it, and transforming. I don't ever see myself being someone who changes the course of the Unites States of America. However, I do know that this is how it's done. There's an old quote from Eugene Debs; "When I Rise it will be with the ranks, and Not from the ranks". Democracy is not one demographic group or class exerting their will over everyone else. It's the participation of all in one system. Oh I know all the definitions and so on. I also know that the founders intended for all Americans to be able to pursue their goals and happiness. Working Americans have given way to the emergence of a class of multi-billionaire elitists who want to subject us all to their will. Is that what you want

The IBT is a union of people. It's not a corporation. What IBT memebers get, is whatever they're willing to fight for. The heads of the international are in their place to represent the will of the memebrship. If we as a membership are not willing to participate we can expect more of the same. It is the WILL of Americans that is what's important here. How important to you is your democracy? That's what this boils down to.

 

[UnionAMT]

I would not hold my breath on that happening anytime soon. Back in 2001 there was a pretty good movement to get a vote for AMFA. I feel we were just a few months shy of petitioning until 9/11 hit. That really took the air out of the drive. Then the layoffs took away many of the yes voters leaving the bulk of the older hell no union group. With the NW merger we added about 3000 mechanics. Most were hired during the AMFA strike of '05. I doubt there are many pro union mechanics in that work group.

I thought that you might find this of interest. This fifteen year old British boy makes a powerful and compelling statement about his stand against the elite oppressors. I can imagine what fluff is passing through the minds of some who will read this and watch the video. The protests in Britain, Spain, France, Italy, Ireland, and even the U.S. are about people being free. What we take for granted, that is disappearing before our eyes, as we concern ourselves with who will be the next employee council rep.

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread639371/pg1

 

[dapoes]

From a twenty year union organizer. You're building a nest in a tree that's being chopped down. Ladies and gentlemen of this forum, please forgive me if I offend anyone here. The U.S.A. is being fundamentally changed in a way that will render the rights of workers unattainable.

You mean..."In your opinion"

Thus the ability of people such as yourself to organize unions for the purpose of attaining a contract and using your union's collective power to elect people in our state's and nation's capitals, that will represent the will of working Americans, is being taken away.

Rubbish.....it is easier now then ever to unionize, thanks to the liberal progressive movement. If the unions are failing to increase their membership, then perhaps they need to look inward, rather then lay blame elsewhere.

Please, what I suggest is that you not simply look at what a contract means to you, directly in your workplace. Because right now things seem pretty good to most, and so the idea of having a contract in hand doesn't seem that important. Rather, effective union organizers should be carrying to their rank and file brothers and sisters, the message of the importance of organized labor as a tool for positive social change in our country. As well as effecting our workplace in a way that will bring forth democracy in our working environment.

The unions have lost the PR battle long ago to their own fault. They need to realize that times have changed and people are more informed then ever. Its not so easy for unions to hide behind their mountain of BS they used to in the past.

Also, you folks that are pro-union employees of Delta Airlines should come to realize that Delta has a presence on this forum that serves to redirect and start arguments over subject matter, for the purpose of "turning people off".

Huh? wha? Seriously? :blink:

I'll welcome reply discussion that is within the light of this topic matter, for the purpose of advancing the cause of your labor rights, as well as the labor rights of Americans in general. I've associated myself with the International Brotherhood of Teamsters union over these years, and am in contact with them.

I do not,in any way shape or form associate with the IAM, the AFA, or any other union.

Oh yeah, right because its "for the purpose of advancing the cause of your labor rights"? Truly embarrassing

 

[xUT]

The IBT is a union of people. It's not a corporation. What IBT memebers get, is whatever they're willing to fight for. The heads of the international are in their place to represent the will of the memebrship. If we as a membership are not willing to participate we can expect more of the same. It is the WILL of Americans that is what's important here. How important to you is your democracy? That's what this boils down to.

IBT are thugs and steal the rights of workers without a democratic input. IBT/IAM/TWU is what is killing unionism in Merika.

Been there, done that, U Suck...

B) xUT

 

[dapoes]

I believe a lot of the blame lies with the people at the top of these (UNION) organizations who have gotten very comfortable with their six figure salaries and although they may comment on our pain they dont feel our pain.

Understatement of the century!

 

[dapoes]

I thought that you might find this of interest. This fifteen year old British boy makes a powerful and compelling statement about his stand against the elite oppressors. I can imagine what fluff is passing through the minds of some who will read this and watch the video. The protests in Britain, Spain, France, Italy, Ireland, and even the U.S. are about people being free. What we take for granted, that is disappearing before our eyes, as we concern ourselves with who will be the next employee council rep.

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread639371/pg1

Feel free to follow this 15 year old down the sewage hole along with his ilk. I know better, as well as any adult with half a brain.

 

[dapoes]

I hope that you and others that are reading this will bare with me for a moment. I want to try and explain something that has had a profound affect on my life. Hopefully it will answer your question, and give us all insight. My first organizing camapign was more than that. It was a revelation and a surprise. It revealed itself to be the most hands on democrat process that most of us will ever be in, and was for me both a surprise, because I didn't expect it, and transforming. I don't ever see myself being someone who changes the course of the Unites States of America. However, I do know that this is how it's done. There's an old quote from Eugene Debs; "When I Rise it will be with the ranks, and Not from the ranks". Democracy is not one demographic group or class exerting their will over everyone else. It's the participation of all in one system. Oh I know all the definitions and so on. I also know that the founders intended for all Americans to be able to pursue their goals and happiness. Working Americans have given way to the emergence of a class of multi-billionaire elitists who want to subject us all to their will. Is that what you want

The IBT is a union of people. It's not a corporation. What IBT memebers get, is whatever they're willing to fight for. The heads of the international are in their place to represent the will of the memebrship. If we as a membership are not willing to participate we can expect more of the same. It is the WILL of Americans that is what's important here. How important to you is your democracy? That's what this boils down to.

Sorry eh, whatever credibility you had in this regard you flushed down the toilet along with that 15 year old conspiracy whack nut. If its getting too hard for you here then go elsewhere where socialism is flourishing, Cuba, Venezuela, Greece, Spain. That grass on the other side is far from being green.

Enjoy.

 

[UnionAMT]

You mean..."In your opinion"


Rubbish.....it is easier now then ever to unionize, thanks to the liberal progressive movement. If the unions are failing to increase their membership, then perhaps they need to look inward, rather then lay blame elsewhere.


The unions have lost the PR battle long ago to their own fault. They need to realize that times have changed and people are more informed then ever. Its not so easy for unions to hide behind their mountain of BS they used to in the past.

Huh? wha? Seriously? :blink:


Oh yeah, right because its "for the purpose of advancing the cause of your labor rights"? Truly embarrassing

I rest my case

 

[P. REZ]

You mean..."In your opinion"


Rubbish.....it is easier now then ever to unionize, thanks to the liberal progressive movement. If the unions are failing to increase their membership, then perhaps they need to look inward, rather then lay blame elsewhere.


The unions have lost the PR battle long ago to their own fault. They need to realize that times have changed and people are more informed then ever. Its not so easy for unions to hide behind their mountain of BS they used to in the past.

Huh? wha? Seriously? :blink:


Oh yeah, right because its "for the purpose of advancing the cause of your labor rights"? Truly embarrassing

You are so uninformed on Corporate America agenda versus Labor Union agenda. Get informed.

 

[dapoes]

You are so uninformed on Corporate America agenda versus Labor Union agenda. Get informed.

I am, are you? Case in point (with video)

AFL-CIO Leader Accepts Communist Party Award: ‘I Stand With Them’


Again, they lose the PR battle when they take positions such as this.

End of Story.