Teamsters and outsourcing

[FWAAA]

True, and I do not see the current AMT profession divided into several different Unions stopping this trend.

Why make an issue out of something that no Union has a plan or the power to stop?

I agree. IMO, the AA maintenance employees should replace the existing impotent, unaccountable and nonresponsive union with one that is more accountable and responsive without worrying about which union "permitted" outsourcing.

WN has always been unionized and has always outsourced most of its heavy airframe overhaul no matter which union has represented its A&Ps. The TWU supporting (and IBT-supporting) mouth-breathers rant on and on about how it's AMFA's fault that UA outsourced its overhaul.

You may be correct. Sorry I did not clarify. My numbers were from prior to AT purchase. I have no idea what the numbers are as of right now. I also don't know the number of lines AT was outsourcing. However, the number had to be large as they did no maint above "B" checks and over-night maint. The union is still working with the company about bringing those lines in. Just to let you know, the contract nego's are on hold for about a month for now, there are a few hot topics in the works right now that have to take priority until resolved.

No worries. I'm not trying to nit-pick over whether it's 18 or 20 or 27. My posts were primarily in response to 700UW who apparently wasn't aware of just how many lines of maintenance WN outsources (and has always outsourced).

I realize that there are many ignorant people who wish I wouldn't post facts, but they can eff themselves straight to hell. The best decisions are always made when one has command of the facts and not simply feelings, emotions and guesses.

As an aside, I came across a TWU-prepared document alleging that before the 2012 contract at AA, there were 25 lines of heavy maintenance at TUL and 5 more at AFW for a total of 30 lines of heavy maintenance for about 620 mainline aircraft. If WN + FL had 31 lines in late 2011, that number makes sense given that WN + FL had over 600 mainline planes at that time.

We can hope that enough mechanics at AA see thru the BS and replace the worthless union, perhaps with AMFA. Outsourcing will happen regardless of the bargaining agent - no aircraft mechanics' union has ever prevented outsourcing of substantial amounts of heavy overhaul (although the TWU conspired with AA management to delay it a decade longer than at most competitors). Once management abandoned the former CEO's "the jury is out on whether it's cheaper to outsource" nonsense, outsourcing began, and will continue no matter the name of the union. The best anyone can hope for would be industry-leading wages for those who are not outsourced. The TWU has failed again and again and again at delivering those industry-leading wages.

 

[swamt]

I agree. IMO, the AA maintenance employees should replace the existing impotent, unaccountable and nonresponsive union with one that is more accountable and responsive without worrying about which union "permitted" outsourcing.

WN has always been unionized and has always outsourced most of its heavy airframe overhaul no matter which union has represented its A&Ps. The TWU supporting (and IBT-supporting) mouth-breathers rant on and on about how it's AMFA's fault that UA outsourced its overhaul.



No worries. I'm not trying to nit-pick over whether it's 18 or 20 or 27. My posts were primarily in response to 700UW who apparently wasn't aware of just how many lines of maintenance WN outsources (and has always outsourced).

I realize that there are many ignorant people who wish I wouldn't post facts, but they can eff themselves straight to hell. The best decisions are always made when one has command of the facts and not simply feelings, emotions and guesses.

As an aside, I came across a TWU-prepared document alleging that before the 2012 contract at AA, there were 25 lines of heavy maintenance at TUL and 5 more at AFW for a total of 30 lines of heavy maintenance for about 620 mainline aircraft. If WN + FL had 31 lines in late 2011, that number makes sense given that WN + FL had over 600 mainline planes at that time.

We can hope that enough mechanics at AA see thru the BS and replace the worthless union, perhaps with AMFA. Outsourcing will happen regardless of the bargaining agent - no aircraft mechanics' union has ever prevented outsourcing of substantial amounts of heavy overhaul (although the TWU conspired with AA management to delay it a decade longer than at most competitors). Once management abandoned the former CEO's "the jury is out on whether it's cheaper to outsource" nonsense, outsourcing began, and will continue no matter the name of the union. The best anyone can hope for would be industry-leading wages for those who are not outsourced. The TWU has failed again and again and again at delivering those industry-leading wages.

Yes. And if the folks at AA or any airline out there thinks AMFA will get them "industry leading pay" as soon as they come in and nego the first contract is, yes, as you stated, ignorant. No-one has claimed this from the AMFA supporters, it came from someone on the TWU or teamsters side. Just simply put, as you did, no union will come into AA and put a halt to the outsourcing that AA is planning to do. They will not stop the rif's that the TWU has already agreed to now and in the future, however, just as we have all seen with past AMFA representational elections, once AMFA takes over they will get blamed for any and all rif's, lay-offs, concessions etc... that the TWU has already agreed to. It is now happening at UAL, it has happened here at SWA, and it has happened at AS. This is one of the main reasons I have offered anyone out there the truth about what has taken place here with AMFA in comparisome to the teamsters while they were here. The fact still remains that AMFA has brought in more work, brought in more mechanics, and nego better and more protections in the short 10 years that they have been here, than the teamsters did in the almost 30 years here at SWA. Hands down the AMFA group has made a great impression on all the members here, as I know they will do for the AA mechanics and US mechanics once they are in and givin a chance. AMFA was not givin a chance to get settled in and working when they were purposely sabbataged at UAL. I cannot guarantee AMFA will prevail at AA, but I will say it will more than likely happen this time around if allowed to be voted on with the TWU. The AA mechanics will be extremely surprised at how much better AMFA is and how much stuff the membership has to vote on. Nothing is done in AMFA without the membership knowing or voting on, period. Sorry for ranting on...