Ted In The Post-atsb World

[iflyjetz]

I am certain the Airbus will be pleasantly equipped as well when I get back from military duty and rejoin Independence Air.

46Driver, how's Independence Air doing? I've been looking at tickets for all of the cities served by Indy on 12 Jul Dulles departure, return 16 July. It looks like the only one where the lowest fare bucket is no longer for most flights is Boston.
I read this as low load factors, since Indy has 5 different fare buckets. Any idea on actual load factors?

 

[46Driver]

I'm currently on 6 month orders to Europe (staff duty) so all I can tell you is what I hear. So far, so good.

Also from what I have seen, the large majority of Indy pilots want UAL to stay in IAD, and were hoping you would get the loan - none of us wants to see anybody's pensions threatened.

 

[C54Capt]

54 driver - I don't care what airplane I fly or who makes it, really; airbus, dornier, lockheed, boeing, whatever........and if UAL doesn't exit ch11 intact I'll be looking for another job (tired of starting over though). For now, I'm on this team so I'll do my best to advocate for success. I'm sure you will do the same.

Cheers, Gimbalimit

Gimbalimit,

I can understand that sir. I am with my third airline and it is disheartening to have to start over in this business where experience and credentials outside your company's seniority list mean nothing. Can you imagine an experienced doctor switching hospitals mid-career and having to become an intern again? All any of us can do is hope we picked the right airline and do our part to make that airline successful.

 

[The Ronin]

Has anyone ever considered CHANGING the system???

 

[The Ronin]

Talk about collaboration, the companies and unions have used seniority not to protect anyone, but to control EVERYONE. In essence it negates everyday of experience you have gained by sending you to the bottom of the chain if YOU decide to leave that employ and or representation. I know each trade has its own uniqueness, but as for my own as example a journeyman should be a journeyman anywhere. Companies have used it so that they don’t have to compete (pay or risk losing) for qualified employees. It also prevents “churnâ€￾ and destabilization of workforces and the ATA has been ardent in preventing this transitory event. The unions have used it to maintain membership roles and thereby prevent loss of revenue to a competing union. It also hurts rank and file, for as soon as time permits they simply rest on their laurels and do nothing to expand or prepare themselves for changing work environments. Then when catastrophic layoffs of shutdowns occur, they are not prepared for a “currentâ€￾ work environment that requires up to date skills. Do I believe seniority should be completely negated, of course not. A time investment into any company or work area should be awarded and thoroughly considered because of the specific experience with that company and or area. But I should be able to carry my journeyman card to another employ, present all credentials, test for that position, pass a probationary period and then at least be paid for work being performed at that level. Of course we are treading in the area of common sense and “realâ€￾ fairness based on ethics and true aptitude and in this realm, that doesn’t cut the grade.

 

[JungleClone]

Let's be honest. The only cost advantage TED has over regular A320's in United Mainline is due to high daily utilization and 24 extra seats. That's it. However, I think in the post-ATSB world, TED could gain an awful lot more leverage. Keep in mind that United now has no choice but to significantly lower costs further. This will only add to TED's competitiveness in leisure markets. The only way I could see it going away soon is if United was forced to bring in equity investors who demanded radical changes, including putting TED to bed for good.

 

[jimntx]

Let's be honest. The only cost advantage TED has over regular A320's in United Mainline is due to high daily utilization and 24 extra seats. That's it. However, I think in the post-ATSB world, TED could gain an awful lot more leverage. Keep in mind that United now has no choice but to significantly lower costs further. This will only add to TED's competitiveness in leisure markets. The only way I could see it going away soon is if United was forced to bring in equity investors who demanded radical changes, including putting TED to bed for good.

But if (as I understand it) TED's crews make the same as mainline, how can they lower costs without cutting wages? And, wouldn't that violate existing CBAs?

 

[mweiss]

...what SW and B6 have known for a long time -- flatten and simplify the fare structure and average yields have actually gone up.

Interesting hypothesis. However, I have yet to see evidence to corroborate this, and believe me I've been looking for it. To date, only AS has broken the 9c RASM barrier with the simplified fare structure, and they just barely did it. Their RASM dropped after implementing their simplified structure.

FWIW, the only airline to significantly increase yield this year is NW, and they have chosen to eschew the simplified fare structure in favor of emulating CO's more high-end fares.

I'm certainly willing to revisit this one, because I want to believe. If you have evidence, please share it with us!

 

[mrfish3726]

46Driver,
You are absolutely correct about the aircraft cabin amenities being the only technology that the customers care about. The high-speed equipment up front only impresses ourselves.

You will love the Airbus. Your 328 experience will bode well from a technology standpoint in transitioning to the 319. I have flown most Boeing and MD products and can honestly say that I prefer the Airbus, although the 777 may have changed my mind, had I had the opportunity to fly it. Semper Fi.

gimbalimit,
Although I respect your "F-15 Driver" status, keep in mind that your "Boeing-7XX Driver" status will only impress your mother. Don't tie your worth too closely to the machines you operate. Unfortunately technology has, to a large degree, mitigated our (airline pilots) elite status in the eyes of the masses.

Your right there, I am just a lowly mechanic. But even with todays technology, flying one of these things is a piece of cake. Done it many times in the sims at UAL.

 

[JungleClone]

You can lower costs by becoming more efficient. If you fly your planes longer each day, you're getting more flights and therefore more ASM's. So you can spread your costs out over more ASM's, which will bring down your CASM. We can still lower costs without necessarily resorting to further wage/benefit cuts. But if it's dramatic cost cuts we're after (and my sense is that's what's needed), than more wage and/or benefit cuts are inevitably going to happen. Of course lowering wages violates CBA's. It could not be done without negotiation. But remember, UA is in Chapter 11 and therefore wields considerable leverage. The only leverage the unions really have is if they're truly willing to shutdown and force a liquidation of the company rather than give in to further cuts. My sense is that the majority are smart enough not to let that happen. This company has value. This isn't a situation compariable to Eastern or Pan Am or TWA. This airline has true global value in the form of it's route network. It has a solid brand awareness world-wide. Just get our costs low enough to compete profitably and it's payback time.

 

[C54Capt]

This airline has true global value in the form of it's route network. It has a solid brand awareness world-wide. Just get our costs low enough to compete profitably and it's payback time.

Jungle,

You are correct sir. This is exactly why TED is a distraction rather than an asset to UAL. Nobody searches out TED, they either book United or find the cheapest seat and end up on TED. This could have been done without diluting the strong brand Of United Airlines. Whether TED is actually successful or not, it is a joke within the industry whereas United has always been regarded with a degree of respect.

 

[Busdrvr]

"they either book United or find the cheapest seat and end up on TED. This could have been done without diluting the strong brand Of United Airlines."

You mean like maybe they could name the low fare subsidiary something like..I don't know... TED instead of a "United Shuttle" or "United Lite"? Does selling dodges dilute the mercedes name? Does selling tiny little toyotas dilute the Lexus name?

 

[mweiss]

The difference, which you seem to be unable to grasp, is that nobody goes to a dealership thinking they're buying a Lexus and suddenly finds themselves driving a Tercel off the lot.

Yet that's exactly what happened to UA's customers; they buy tickets that say UA on them and find themselves on Ted or US.

That's what dilutes the brand.

 

[Busdrvr]

The difference, which you seem to be unable to grasp, is that nobody goes to a dealership thinking they're buying a Lexus and suddenly finds themselves driving a Tercel off the lot.

Yet that's exactly what happened to UA's customers; they buy tickets that say UA on them and find themselves on Ted or US.

That's what dilutes the brand.

you've apparently never looked under the hood of an ES300.

 

[mweiss]

I'm not talking about the level of difference between the ES300 and the Avalon. I'm talking about the difference between the LS400 and the Tercel. Nobody's going to confuse those two manufacturers.

To draw a comparison between the ES300 and the Avalon, the analogy would be between UA's coach (their bottom of the line) and, say, FL's business class (their top of the line). After all, the ES300 is Lexus's bottom of the line, and the Avalon is Toyota's top of the line.

So, based on that comparison, UA comes out even worse. Still want to stick with that?