delldude
Veteran
From the Fox debates-Rudy speaks:
terrorist plot foiled
- Thread starter wnbubbleboy
- Start date
jerseyfinn
Senior
I don't disagree that the actions of individuals define any group or religion. The same applies to this Islam/radicalism/terror paradigm.
That said, let me say that I live 3 miles from the mosque where 4 or 5 of these Ft. Dix terror characters gathered & plotted their attacks in the name of their religion ( I & almost everyone here did not even know that there was a mosque in this small riverfront working class community). Presently that mosque is having an open house trying to assuage & assure the community around it that they abhor violence & denounce terror. I don't doubt their sincerity.
But I also don't dismiss or discount the threat of radicalism which at present flows out of the Islamic mainstream. Why do I put it that way? Because the Muslim community in London and the UK is one example that the so-called "normal" Muslim community is passive and itself resentful of any questioning words, doubting thoughts, or critical ideas expressed by non-Muslims about what is going on. I'm not saying that mainstream Islam is about terrorism, I'm simply saying that mainstream Islam is itself in a state of denial about the dangerous threat of radical extremists who move within that community & hide behind that religion. And remember, many of those UK terrorists are UK born individuals who become radicalized & use Islam for their own purpose while the mainstream turns their heads the other way and even denounces British society and government.
More crucial is that Islam is presently incapable of admitting to itself that it is a dysfunctional religion unable reconcile its fundamental logic to modernity. This problem has been there a very very long time. 911 simply shows the world how out of touch a radical veneer of Islam really is ( and it amplilfies the real threat of non-nation state actors using WMD in this, the post Cold War world). My hats off to President Bush for calling an ace an ace and a spade a spade ( not to say that we have not bungled Iraq, which is a separate issue no matter what Pelosi et. al try to say ).
So you know what? We have every damned right to be pissed off with an impotent Islam which refuses to look in the mirror and take care of family business when it is the locus of lethal radicalism.
Were these Fort Dix guys sophisticated, calculating terrorists? No, they were not. It is debatable about what they could have done in reality. But this is the same exact paradigm by which bombers in London pull off one successful attack while other UK plots are infiltrated and stopped by the vigilance of police & special ops.
It's a real world out there and the threats are real. I'm really not in a cuddly-touchy-feely mood like the dems suggest we should use to kisss and make up with Islam. I don't despise Islam. I simply want it to get its house in order. And I'm not against using forceful methods if mainstream Islam abdicates its own responsibility to affirm the values and laws of the western societies in which it lives and interacts. Neither side should countennance terrorists and it's time for Islam to clearly demonstrate this.
Barry
That said, let me say that I live 3 miles from the mosque where 4 or 5 of these Ft. Dix terror characters gathered & plotted their attacks in the name of their religion ( I & almost everyone here did not even know that there was a mosque in this small riverfront working class community). Presently that mosque is having an open house trying to assuage & assure the community around it that they abhor violence & denounce terror. I don't doubt their sincerity.
But I also don't dismiss or discount the threat of radicalism which at present flows out of the Islamic mainstream. Why do I put it that way? Because the Muslim community in London and the UK is one example that the so-called "normal" Muslim community is passive and itself resentful of any questioning words, doubting thoughts, or critical ideas expressed by non-Muslims about what is going on. I'm not saying that mainstream Islam is about terrorism, I'm simply saying that mainstream Islam is itself in a state of denial about the dangerous threat of radical extremists who move within that community & hide behind that religion. And remember, many of those UK terrorists are UK born individuals who become radicalized & use Islam for their own purpose while the mainstream turns their heads the other way and even denounces British society and government.
More crucial is that Islam is presently incapable of admitting to itself that it is a dysfunctional religion unable reconcile its fundamental logic to modernity. This problem has been there a very very long time. 911 simply shows the world how out of touch a radical veneer of Islam really is ( and it amplilfies the real threat of non-nation state actors using WMD in this, the post Cold War world). My hats off to President Bush for calling an ace an ace and a spade a spade ( not to say that we have not bungled Iraq, which is a separate issue no matter what Pelosi et. al try to say ).
So you know what? We have every damned right to be pissed off with an impotent Islam which refuses to look in the mirror and take care of family business when it is the locus of lethal radicalism.
Were these Fort Dix guys sophisticated, calculating terrorists? No, they were not. It is debatable about what they could have done in reality. But this is the same exact paradigm by which bombers in London pull off one successful attack while other UK plots are infiltrated and stopped by the vigilance of police & special ops.
It's a real world out there and the threats are real. I'm really not in a cuddly-touchy-feely mood like the dems suggest we should use to kisss and make up with Islam. I don't despise Islam. I simply want it to get its house in order. And I'm not against using forceful methods if mainstream Islam abdicates its own responsibility to affirm the values and laws of the western societies in which it lives and interacts. Neither side should countennance terrorists and it's time for Islam to clearly demonstrate this.
Barry
OP
wnbubbleboy
Veteran
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #33
Ok Where's my Milk Crate......Ok Now I'm on it.
Earlier in this Post I referred to William Poole aka "Bill the Butcher". If there are any large scale attacks He will rise again with the Nationalistic fervor that will be brutal to anyone who doesn't fit the script of Native American.
The pendulum of tolerance had been pulled so tight that when it swings the other way ACLU lawyers will tremble under their tables at Starbucks.
It's happen before here in the United States. The Whiskey Rebellion, Boston Tea Party, Remember the Alamo! Our Civil War that ended Slavery. This by far was the worst American killing American but we are the Children of these men and women. Most of the peace loving faith who have emigrated I doubt have any idea of our history.
Tolerance has been a relatively new thing here in the United States. As a matter of fact lets just say it's still in it's experimental stage. When the Charismatic likes of William Poole rise again it will be too late. They need to "Clean house" before the "Genie is out of the bottle".
Ok Now I am off to Write up my sanwich board.
delldude
Veteran
Just like WWII,huh?
Lock 'em all up....don't take a chance?
The sad thing here is the good for the most part fear retribution if they become outspoken.Just like crime here in black neighborhoods.Is it wrong to look upon people of ME decent 'that way'? I know it is.....but how many times do you hear on the news that the person 'seemed like a nice person' or 'can't understand what made him do it'....strange world....strange people of all makes and models.
Until the silent majority that makes up the good body of any races masses stands up and says 'enough'....we will keep on dealing with these horrific actions.
Lock 'em all up....don't take a chance?
The sad thing here is the good for the most part fear retribution if they become outspoken.Just like crime here in black neighborhoods.Is it wrong to look upon people of ME decent 'that way'? I know it is.....but how many times do you hear on the news that the person 'seemed like a nice person' or 'can't understand what made him do it'....strange world....strange people of all makes and models.
Until the silent majority that makes up the good body of any races masses stands up and says 'enough'....we will keep on dealing with these horrific actions.
