The Plan, Maybe?

Dea Certe

Veteran
Aug 20, 2002
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Do you remember the movie "Wall Street"? It was a fictional story about an airline and a few greedy men.

In the movie, Michael Douglas played the part of a very wealthy, savvy "Business man" who bought an airline to dismantle it and make a profit. His most famous line came while he was defending his actions at a shareholders meeting, "Greed is Good."

Some believe the character was based on Ivan Boesky, a real life Wall Street "abitraguer" who had said to a 1986 graduating class of business majors almost the same the thing. Boesky told them "Greed is all right. I want you to know that. I think Greed is healthy." And they took him at his word.

No longer was it necessary to spend years with a company, moving ones way up the corporate ladder. You could jump in and buy and sell bonds. You could go into Mergers and Acquisitions. Paper transactions that could make one very wealthy, very quick and relatively bloodless. No had to see the real live people in trenches.

Manufactoring companies were traded, acquired, sold and a few people got very rich.

But these people never really knew anything about the day-to-day running of a company or factory. They rarely met any of the people who worked "for them" on the plant floors. All they saw was the bottom line. Which was always higher than they wanted it to be.

So, the Plan was to force costs down. The product wasn't the issue or particularly important. Plants and factories were shut down or moved, usually to the South where the Right to Work Laws made it much more easy to keep costs down.

Labor unions could be broken, profits could soar while the workers lived on less and less. With fewer of those pesky benefits, like insurance and retirement plans. High cost items, you understand. But people need to eat and feed their families, so they had a good supply of "low cost labor".

Eventually, the South, with a lower cost of living already wasn't able to meet those cost cutting requirements. So, they took the factories even farther South to Mexico or to Asia where there were almost no laws to protect the workers. And even more bodies that needed to eat.

NAFTA was the ticket. Cooked up and pulled together during the Reagan and Bush Sr. administrations, NAFTA didn't look to stand a chance of getting off the ground. It was argued and fought over in the Senate. Finally, it was passed with much hoop-la and signed into being by Bill Clinton.

Now, since there's a few "protections" in place for the workers, who were barely making a living wage in their country, it cost more. So jobs are being sent to Asia. "Out-sourcing" has become a way of doing business on the cheap. Because we have to keep the costs down to be "profitable".

It doesn't bother anyone who can't see the people who are living in squalor unlike anything our Country has seen since the early 1900's. Child labor, convict labor are very cheap too.

So, where does that leave us? It's my opinion 9-11 sped up a process that was already in motion. The airline industry was particularly hard hit. In trouble since deregulation, airlines were already fighting each other tooth and nail for market share. 9-11 and the war with Iraq just pushed everyone over the edge. Massive lay offs, years of contracts broken in a few swift months.

Airline travel can't afford to be "glamorous" any more. The product suffers as standards are lowered so fares can be lowered. So we can get a what little profits there might be, or just stay alive while there's "over-capacity" in the market. Seems there's too many airlines and not enough money.

Again, I think we are at a critical stage. The market is slowly coming back. But all the airlines are in so much trouble, it's got to be a "Survivor" scenario. Every airline is fighting every other airline for customers. Some one has to lose. Will it be US or UAL, the two most "troubled" carriers or will there be something else? Spinning off "new low cost units" while pruning back the old?

All the legacy airlines have very senior people who are topped out on pay and many who are close to retirement age. Where do they go in today's economy?

Life isn't fair, we all know this. But what do we do? Try to save what few jobs there are while we hope and pray people will retire. And hope and pray there will be a pension for them. Maybe not much to rave about, but a few dollars to keep body and soul together.

It's beat the clock. We can only dance so fast for so long while waiting to see what happens at the other airlines. As has been pointed out, we don't have much solidarity. That would be our only card to play.

I still believe RJ's aren't the answer. Customers don't like them. The complaints are already rolling in at the carriers who do have them. Check out FlyerTalk. Those are the customers who kept us alive this long.

In any case, the workers at the airlines will be the ones who suffer the most, through job loss and severe pay and benefit cuts. The boys at the top will get their Big Bucks, or at least enough to still be "respectable" in their circles.

What we can do, is write our Senators and Congress Representatives. We can vote. We must vote. We must make our concerns and issues their priorities. Not just the airline workers, but all the people who work for wages in this country.

Out-sourcing must stop. The flow of jobs off-shore must stop. Otherwise, we are creating a permenent under class of low paying, barely life supporting jobs. It isn't about getting or having a good education any more.

We are losing our middle class. Who's going to pay the taxes? Already Bush has given Corporate America huge tax cuts. A few will benefit from that, but only a few. It hurts our country more than it helps as long as we don't have some balances.

I apologise for the length of this post. I have much more to say, but I'm too sick at heart to write it.

Dea
 
Dea,

I'm a customer and I love the RJ's. Fast and quiet!

I think you've been buying into the line the Unions have been selling you for too long. If you don't like your job - quit. Tell your boss to screw and leave.

Unemployment is 5%!!! Regardless of what the leftists like Kerry have been saying - 5% is extremely low. Oh by the way, Kerry supported and voted for NAFTA.

It's an election year and the Democrats have spent the last 12 months painting a picture of doom and gloom. That's how they get themselves elected. They must make you believe that only they can solve the problems of society. It's called scare tactics and it's deplorable. I recently heard the Chairman of the DNC blaming Bush for the bad economy and job losses in 2000. I guess he forgot that Bush didn’t take office until January 2001.

Is the glass half full or half empty? Only you can make that call and only you are ultimately responsible for the way your life turns out.

Five years ago I quit a good job because I didn't like my employer. We all have that right! Money does not equal happiness. If you don't like US Airways - get out.

Regardless of what you hear on TV or read in the newspaper, there are many great things happening in American. Take a chance and see for yourself. Also, before I end I need to set a few things straight.

1. "Not just the airline workers, but all the people who work for wages in this country." -I may be in management at my place of employment, but I still earn a wage. What the Dems try to do is create class envy. They try to divide and conqueror based upon race, income, etc. I’ve never hated someone because of the amount of money they made. Don't buy into that failed logic of thinking.

2. "We are losing our middle class. Who's going to pay the taxes? Already Bush has given Corporate America huge tax cuts." -This is a total untrue statement! The Bush tax cuts were in response to the huge tax increases (largest in American history) instituted by Clinton and the Dems in Congress in 1993 (this included taxing Social Security wages for Seniors). The cuts Bush enacted recently were across the board EQUAL cuts. EQUAL - that means the same for all tax brackets. In fact, if you made less than 14K a year (mostly college students) - you pay no taxes. This is up from the 12K previously. Already our income tax code is unfair to higher wage earners. They (I'm not one of them) pay a higher percentage of their pay in taxes.

Everyone likes to yell and scream EQUALITY - well our income tax code discriminates. Because they make more, they pay more and because it was an EQUAL cut they benefit more. Finally, if you think our middle class is diminishing, it’s probably because more and more of them are becoming wealthy.

Now I’m sure I’ve just opened myself up to a battering of attacks from the Union/Dem faithful that post on this board frequently. My only response to them is to present the facts – no scare tactics!

Best wishes,
 
Dea,

Everything in life is about maintaining homeostasis. From your own health to families, societies, business, our economy....it's all about balance.

Right now, that balance is off kilter in our economy. You take down the unions, translates to decreasing the "wage bar", and the non - union workers salaries come down as a consequence and the list goes on, until folks won't be able to pay their taxes support their families specifically when 1 member is even chronically ill. Who can pay for child care. Even on wages for the w/o, many of those f/as say they can't support child care without having family members pitch in.

If all this goes "unchecked" and the wealthy, greedy execs get their way, we will have a society with children run a muck, while parents leave their kids alone after school, while they work day jobs and night jobs to make it.

This is all so pathetic, and for what? Should we let "fear" rule the day?

I was hoping I could take a different position on this new concession round. Siegel said it was just for a look at work rules and to be more productive. That is what it is not about...ITS A FULL BLOWN NEGOTIATIONS ALL OVER AGAIN. What's the point in having an amendable date anyway....

I don't think I will be able to support this round of concessions. Members will have to decide this one, and they need the information (without damn co. spin) to make the right choices.

One thing I do know, if folks resign or quit, they can not collect unemplolyment to hold them over while interviewing for a new job. For our reserves, its very difficult now to even plan for an interview because of the LTO system in place. They can't even go to school anymore while holding this job. Many of our f/as reserve or blockholders can't take on second jobs to make up the difference in wage loss because of the schedules from month to month.

Sad times.

djlndc,

Unemployment in PA state is more than 5%. More like 6.4%. Keep in mind, that many folks who collected benefits are now not able to recieve an extension. That was not approved by Congress this year. How I know, because many of our f/as are now in this catagory, and, its my business to know.

Many of the reserves can "net" what they would fly on unemployment. We collect the max benefit. If we were from the w/o, we could not.

For me at my rate, Unemployment would net me approx 75% of what I make. This I know because it is my business to know.


And you logic above with more of the middle class deminishing because they are becoming wealthy, could not even be a partial truth. Many middle class workers are struggling to maintain their homes. Personal BK are up and unemployment is up specifically those who can no longer collect a benefit.

I can say for sure that the middle class is diminishing, because they are becoming poor. Why?

I'm one of them.






.
 
Dea, as always excellent post. You, along with PITbull, have a very keen understanding of US Airways and the airline industry and how they relate to the nation (and the worlds) larger problems.
 
djlndc,

"I'm a customer and I love the RJ's. Fast and quiet!"

The fast & quiet part makes me think that you prefer the RJ's to turboprops. I don't think many would disagree with that. Likewise, few would disagree that there is a place for RJ's in the industry.

The question is - given the choice between the RJ or a Boeing/Airbus for the same fare, which would you rather fly? How about if the bigger airplane comes with a lower fare?

Jim
 
I have 2 very good friends. One is right wing, the other left wing. I sit in the middle listening and my head is going back and forth, to the left, to the right. I then feel my head spinning. One thing they BOTH say (in common) BE GLAD YOU HAVE A JOB!!!!! Well, is this what it is coming to???People going around saying BE GLAD YOU HAVE A JOB???? Well, this comment alone just pisses me off. Oh, Wow, I should be sooo lucky as to have a job.

Thas is one thing I do feel this company is shoving down our throats. BE GLAD YOU HAVE A JOB. Well, I just still do have a job ONLY because I got hired on earlier than the 2000 furloughed F/A's. Thas is really sad and pathetic.

Yea, I know I could be next out the door, so in the mean time should I BE GLAD I HAVE A JOB???? I guess I am, but sometimes I have to wonder if my ulcer can take it.

And for the record USflyboi....I do NEED this job. But I also need my dignity, self respect and Health. <_<

There, that's my rant. :blink:
 
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dj, (may I call you dj?)

First, understand I love my job and do it very well. I would never have stayed in job I didn't like or working for a company I didn't support.

The Dems are creating "class envy"? I don't think so. I was raised in a very hard-line Republican household. I'm the only one who's not a registrated Republican in a large and extended family. I'm used to not listening to the crowd! For years I thought it was "thosedamndemocrats" party!

My family was very lucky during the Great Depression. No one was out of work, none of the women worked outside the home and no one went hungry. I think we were very spoiled as kids but had no idea how easy it always had been. I was told to get an education. Not so I could support myself, but so I'd be a more interesting companion. So I could "marry well" and raise a new generation.

Well, that didn't work out. I've enjoyed my independence and never had to borrow a dime from my folks. I've had some sort of job since I was 14, as it was expected in the Certe house. You want something, you earn it. There was no loafing around and we liked it that way. Still do.

I don't believe anyone is expecting a free ride. I also do volunteer work in my community and have done so since I was a kid. It was important that we contribute to society in a positive way. It's allowed me to see things I probably wouldn't have otherwise. And shaped my opinon of the world around me.

I believe we need to have an inclusive government. I don't buy into the splitting up of our citizens by race, creed or culture. I believe there's room for everyone in this rich nation our forebears created. It galls me to see the disparity between the economic groups. If one works hard, one should be rewarded for that labor fairly and justly.

What I am seeing is that it doesn't matter how hard you work, it's how well-connected you are and willing you are to play the game. I can find job satisfaction without an immorally large pay check. The size of ones bank account doesn't equate success to me. It's the quality of ones life in respect to ones family and community.

I think Corporate American culture is destroying our country. The worship of the all-mighty dollars at the expense of anything else. The cult of Celebrity worship and the need to have just the right sneakers!

I know lots of well-educated people who are out of work now. I also know a lot of people who are under-employed At the used book store near my house, everyone who works there has a Master's degree in something. It pays $8.00 an hour. These are older people who lost jobs in middle management positions.

No one it telling me this. I'm seeing this myself.

What I see happening is a country divided into those who have a lot and those who barely get by. Are they sluggards because they can't find work? I know people who have been unemployed for several years. They get by on "free lance" work. Undependable pay while they eat into their savings and retirement funds.

Hewlitt Packard has a whole crop of "independant contractors" of highly trained computer people who earn $12 an hour. No benefits, no pensions, no security. Are they lazy? No, they can't find jobs!

I am terribly worried for our country. Worse comes to worst, I can go live with my brother as the eccentric old Aunt. Listen to him rail against the "femin-nazis" and lefties.

That's the greatest thing about our country. Everyone can have an opinion, no matter how wrong-headed or ignorant it might be. But the question remains: Can we all have bread?

Dea
 
PITbull said:
One thing I do know, if folks resign or quit, they can not collect unemplolyment to hold them over while interviewing for a new job. For our reserves, its very difficult now to even plan for an interview because of the LTO system in place. They can't even go to school anymore while holding this job. Many of our f/as reserve or blockholders can't take on second jobs to make up the difference in wage loss because of the schedules from month to month.
PITBull,

So your answer is to wish that the company goes under so that you can get unemployment...that is pathetic! Lets see, what is better pay, unemployment, or a contract something like LCCs have?

The choice is starting over somewhere else (if you could even get hired; wait, or even get an interview), or staying here with similar working conditions. I hate to break the news to you, but for the vast majority, staying here is the best option.

We have had it good here for a longtime, better contractually than all the legacy carriers...it is over, this place will not support it any longer, get used to the new reality!
 
UseYourHead said:
<snip>
So your answer is to wish that the company goes under so that you can get unemployment...that is pathetic!
Your charecterization of her post is inaccurate, intellectually dishonest, and ludicrous. Are you not able to form a rational counter point?

In reading her posts for years I cannot recall her ever wishing for the liquidation of U or stating such.

Certainly she is "out there" and bold enough for anyone that wishes to attack her logic and postings on their merit, she is consistent and never wishy washy.

Putting words in her mouth she never uttered is very unfair.
 
Dilligas said:
UseYourHead said:
<snip>
So your answer is to wish that the company goes under so that you can get unemployment...that is pathetic!
Your charecterization of her post is inaccurate, intellectually dishonest, and ludicrous. Are you not able to form a rational counter point?

In reading her posts for years I cannot recall her ever wishing for the liquidation of U or stating such.

Certainly she is "out there" and bold enough for anyone that wishes to attack her logic and postings on their merit, she is consistent and never wishy washy.

Putting words in her mouth she never uttered is very unfair.
D,

I stand by my post:

PITBull wrote:
"if folks resign or quit, they can not collect unemplolyment to hold them over while interviewing for a new job."

From her statements in other posts above, not supporting concessions (that she has yet to find out what if any there are) combined with this statement implies to me that driving the airline under is better than working for less dollars, or working more hours, and/or other contract changes to mirror LCC competition.

Am I wrong with my summary PITBull?
 
Excellent post, Dea.

I, too, am not interested in equal results, aka handouts. That defies science, and as the Soviet Union proved, is unsustainable in the long run.

I am interested in a more equal access to resources - decent health care, and an education as far as your skills and talent will take you.

Why is capital thought narrowly of as just money? It is about more than that - it is about ideas. Bill Gates is not rich because of investment acumen, he is rich because of a superior idea.

Why do we not seek out and grow intellectual capital as diligently as we care for money?

Skills and talents, much to the dismay of the social Darwinists, cannot be bred for. Talents are a random gift, distributed according to chaos theory across social, gender, and racial boundaries. Talent can be found in the mines (Chuck Yeager), among the handicapped (FDR) , and on the diamond (Jackie Robinson).

Our society has a much poorer record nurturing talent, and we each are the poorer for it. What if a ghetto kid has the inate talents to tame AIDS or cancer? Will she get the chance? What if a farmer boycould be the next great peacemaker? Will he get there? Today, the answer is maybe, but not likely.

Until we push that needle over to 'likely', we fall short of what we can be.

Now, a small-minded, status-quo elite is opposed to such ideas. That are at the pyramid's apex, and they like it that way. They are not interested in competing on even terms for their position. When some tax-dodging, influence-peddling, bid-rigging plutocrat talks about 'free' markets, he is, prime facia, lying. Free markets for labor perhaps, but not for him or his business. Otherwise, why is there such a deep and broad history of price-fixing and collusion in American business?

I have no envy of Jordan's, or Kelleher's, or Gates' wealth. They have arrived at that place because of their talents.

On the other hand, may the Lorenzo's, the Keating's, and the Lay's (actually "their name is Legion, because they are many") get the justice in this life, as well as the next, they have so richly earned.
 
UseYourHead said:
PITbull said:
One thing I do know, if folks resign or quit, they can not collect unemplolyment to hold them over while interviewing for a new job. For our reserves, its very difficult now to even plan for an interview because of the LTO system in place. They can't even go to school anymore while holding this job. Many of our f/as reserve or blockholders can't take on second jobs to make up the difference in wage loss because of the schedules from month to month.
PITBull,

So your answer is to wish that the company goes under so that you can get unemployment...that is pathetic! Lets see, what is better pay, unemployment, or a contract something like LCCs have?

The choice is starting over somewhere else (if you could even get hired; wait, or even get an interview), or staying here with similar working conditions. I hate to break the news to you, but for the vast majority, staying here is the best option.

We have had it good here for a longtime, better contractually than all the legacy carriers...it is over, this place will not support it any longer, get used to the new reality!
Thank you Dilligas for understanding me for these past couple of years and my position.


Use your head,

I will not lower myself to your "narrow minded" level of manipulating and putting your "spin" on my post. No one on these boards wants U to go liquidate or sell off, nor to the employees want to throw their own personal financial well being "under a bus" and accept continued work here at U at LCC wages and benefits.

If that is the choice, I can tell you with much certainty how the vote will go this time. Remember, during the ratification of the Winter agreement, no employees had actually lived what was to ensue. Now they have.

In addition your managment team has implemented new co. policies that are so punitive, destroy the human spirit, and work self-worth. You messed up here. The "perfect plan" would have been to "take all" during the winter concession.

Now, employees have this hx (history) to pull from. All the violations of the contract provisions in all labor groups will prove not to benefit this management's current message and mission. Too bad, too sad.

Absent major change demonstrated in action by this management to improve morale and change these new draconian policies that are killing our employees..I am here, sir, to make your life absolutely miserable for the injustice you have helped create in the work place, and expose you and your plan while we are both going out the door and under the bus.

Are we clear, sir?
 
Actually, I think she is responding to those asinine "if you don't like it at U, quit" posters.

I know of many employees who have accepted that their time at U may be short, and while they are preparing for another life, are hanging in there for severance/unemployment. Although most figure the company will find a way to bone them out of it.

'Hoping for the best, preparing for the worst' is an affirming act on the part of any U employee.
 
PineyBob,

What I mean is that part of the equation is cost competitive, reasonable contracts labor operates under. US Airways must be able to compete and make money, not bleed. This labor group will arrive at a formula that accomplishes that, or they will be out interviewing/starting over. I can do that, I am ready to do it, it is clearly a less desirable choice for most.

"If labor chooses to throw the whole blasted airline under the bus"...I am am labor Bob, I work here, and that is what the debate is about. When we are in the black in the months to come we can focus on removing undesirable management types, wasting energy on who would be to blame with this airlines failure is just that, a waste.

The only entity responsible for US Airways failure is management, everyone knows that, it is a fact. Since I have been here I would be hard pressed to come up with more than a handful of things that were done right, all the while, we the line employees keep things floating.

Yes Bob, we line employees must be happy to deliver superior customer service that YOU deserve...and we will be doing it at a hybred of our competitions contracts...and that will be far better than unemployment.
 
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