Things Are About To Get Ugly
- Thread starter JungleClone
- Start date
Cosmo
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 840
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WorldTraveler:WorldTraveler said:
While I agree with your basic premise, let's not forget that American, Continental, Delta and Northwest also "still fly to some very popular places". Moreover, not all of those new aircraft the LCCs have on order will end up on domestic routes -- we're just beginning to see the invasion of the LCCs into the Caribbean and Mexico. And who has the most exposure in those areas? American, US Airways, Continental and Delta, roughly in that order.
Conversely, the two carriers with the least exposure to potential LCC entry in the Caribbean and Mexico, Northwest and United, are also by far the strongest carriers in the Transpacific market where the greatest traffic growth in coming years (certainly in percentage terms and probably in absolute terms as well) is expected to be seen. And let's also remember that literally all of those "vast" numbers of aircraft that the LCCs have on order are Airbus, Boeing or Embraer short- to medium-haul narrowbodies that are not capable of challenging the network majors' routes to Asia, Australia, Europe, the Middle East or deep South America (below the Amazon). While this situation can, and probably will, change at some point in the future, it nonetheless gives those network majors with a significant long-haul international presence some additional needed support (and time) as they transform themselves into airlines that can effectively compete against the LCCs.
U
UAL_TECH
Guest
767jetz,
If you truly believe this, then why not drop the subject until it becomes ‘official’?
As you should already know from previous discussions on this topic, there are many nuances to the different DB plans that you may not have considered in your analysis.
It could be Boresope is on to something.
:blink: UT
If you truly believe this, then why not drop the subject until it becomes ‘official’?
As you should already know from previous discussions on this topic, there are many nuances to the different DB plans that you may not have considered in your analysis.
It could be Boresope is on to something.
:blink: UT
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
- 10,662
- Banned
- #80
Cosmo,
I agree with you about the "protection" that Asia offers but none of the network carriers can make it if they don't get their domestic operations in order. In reality, most of the airlines this year are seeing very strong results in all international regions (Europe, Latin, Asia) but are still losing mega amounts of money due to their basketplace domestic networks and the fact that fuel costs are just as much of a problem on international routes as it is domestically. Survival will come to the airline that can figure out how to make their domestic route system work; their profitable international presence will be icing on the cake.
I agree with you about the "protection" that Asia offers but none of the network carriers can make it if they don't get their domestic operations in order. In reality, most of the airlines this year are seeing very strong results in all international regions (Europe, Latin, Asia) but are still losing mega amounts of money due to their basketplace domestic networks and the fact that fuel costs are just as much of a problem on international routes as it is domestically. Survival will come to the airline that can figure out how to make their domestic route system work; their profitable international presence will be icing on the cake.
U
UAL_TECH
Guest
UT said:
767Jetsz,767jetz said:
It is a free country (for the moment).
Just using your own words.
:mellow: UT
mrfish3726
Veteran
- Jul 7, 2004
- 931
- 0
As the ATSB said: "granting the requested aid isn't necessary to maintaining a safe and viable commercial airline system in the United States." In context, UAL is left to fend for itself. If they fail the US economy and airline industry will survive. Plenty of LCC's around to pick up all the pieces.
As the old timers always told me when I worked at UAL. Don't rock the boat we've done things the same way for 50 years. I think the ATSB knew this to, it showed in their business plan or lack of.
We need a new hangar for our F9 maintenance department, we'll probably get a deal on the one in Denver soon
.
As the old timers always told me when I worked at UAL. Don't rock the boat we've done things the same way for 50 years. I think the ATSB knew this to, it showed in their business plan or lack of.
We need a new hangar for our F9 maintenance department, we'll probably get a deal on the one in Denver soon
.mrfish3726 said:As the ATSB said: "granting the requested aid isn't necessary to maintaining a safe and viable commercial airline system in the United States." In context, UAL is left to fend for itself. If they fail the US economy and airline industry will survive. Plenty of LCC's around to pick up all the pieces.
As the old timers always told me when I worked at UAL. Don't rock the boat we've done things the same way for 50 years. I think the ATSB knew this to, it showed in their business plan or lack of.
We need a new hangar for our F9 maintenance department, we'll probably get a deal on the one in Denver soon
You sure weren't here very long to be so bitter. <_<
OP
JungleClone
Senior
- Jan 9, 2004
- 338
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- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #86
Folks, don't allow rabble rousers like Mr.Fish to get you all spooled up. His immature cheap shots at United are probably born out of envy and jealousy out of being too junior to hang on and now being forced to work for the big bucks at such a high paying employer like Frontier. It's gotta be tough going from doing D Checks to changing oil screens.
Mr.Fish, the ATSB's decision was nothing more than Election Year Politics 101. Who currently occupies the White House? What state is he from? Texas, did you say? What airlines are based in Texas? AA, CO and WN? Hmmmmmmmmmmm, I wonder if some pressure was exerted on that end. Also, anything goes in an election year. The bottom line is that the ATSB took the easy way out and managed to save face by saying they didn't believe we needed the loan guarantee to get the financing to exit Ch. 11. I honestly think they've done United a huge favor. They now have forced us to lower costs further, which is exactly what we should have done the first time. Our costs are simply not low enough. But they will get there. And when they do, the game will change, and you could be looking for employment yet again. So be careful what you wish for, you just might get it. The hard way.
Mr.Fish, the ATSB's decision was nothing more than Election Year Politics 101. Who currently occupies the White House? What state is he from? Texas, did you say? What airlines are based in Texas? AA, CO and WN? Hmmmmmmmmmmm, I wonder if some pressure was exerted on that end. Also, anything goes in an election year. The bottom line is that the ATSB took the easy way out and managed to save face by saying they didn't believe we needed the loan guarantee to get the financing to exit Ch. 11. I honestly think they've done United a huge favor. They now have forced us to lower costs further, which is exactly what we should have done the first time. Our costs are simply not low enough. But they will get there. And when they do, the game will change, and you could be looking for employment yet again. So be careful what you wish for, you just might get it. The hard way.
firstamendment
Veteran
- Apr 1, 2003
- 1,348
- 0
"There is no plan B"...Rakesh Gangwal, US Airways...after failed merger with UAL.
God, I hope you guys actually HAVE one. We at US are STILL suffering because of that failed decision.
God, I hope you guys actually HAVE one. We at US are STILL suffering because of that failed decision.
mrfish3726
Veteran
- Jul 7, 2004
- 931
- 0
Boeing787,767Jetz, and JungleClone,
Posts are funny, shows how much tension is still at UAL. Clone, beleive me I have no jealousy for anyone that works at UAL. It was undoubtly the WORST job I EVER had in my entire aviation career. And now I am back home in DENVER with what will again one day be the AIRLINE of the WEST just like the old Frontier. And I don't get to dirty working in the Technical Services department keeping the NEW fleet on track.
Good luck to you all, it is going to be VERY interesting to see who gets the axe next at UAL. You can bet it will be more people in the maintenance department. And since the bankruptcy judge ruled that UAL can't get out of paying it's leases in Denver it will only be a matter of time before they shut down this empty hangar here in Denver. We do need some expansion room, this Continental hangar is getting very small.
Posts are funny, shows how much tension is still at UAL. Clone, beleive me I have no jealousy for anyone that works at UAL. It was undoubtly the WORST job I EVER had in my entire aviation career. And now I am back home in DENVER with what will again one day be the AIRLINE of the WEST just like the old Frontier. And I don't get to dirty working in the Technical Services department keeping the NEW fleet on track.
Good luck to you all, it is going to be VERY interesting to see who gets the axe next at UAL. You can bet it will be more people in the maintenance department. And since the bankruptcy judge ruled that UAL can't get out of paying it's leases in Denver it will only be a matter of time before they shut down this empty hangar here in Denver. We do need some expansion room, this Continental hangar is getting very small.
mrfish3726
Veteran
- Jul 7, 2004
- 931
- 0
jungleclone,
Forgot, I make more at Frontier than I did at United and the hours are better. 10 hour shift sure beats those crappy old 6 and 2's any day. :down:
Forgot, I make more at Frontier than I did at United
and the hours are better. 10 hour shift sure beats those crappy old 6 and 2's any day. :down:
