Therein lies the problem. Besides the paycuts, what is UAL's plan? Is there any thing operationally being done??uafa21 said:
Ual 4th Quarter Results
- Thread starter Dizel8
- Start date
Prepare yourselves for more concessions since the business model isn't the problem at UAL, labor is.....or at least that's what you've all signed off on.
As I have always said.... The Empire Will always Strike Back! The question is whether you will fight them or not.
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They'll be back for more with the losses being posted. 320 mil+ for the month of January alone and there's still a long way to go til the summer.
A lot of negative people here. January is always a tough month and the business plan is not put into place yet. Before we decide the airline is dead and they are going to come after us again for more concessions, why don’t we wait till the spring and more of the business plan falls into place. Fares are going up. I do two round trips a month between ATL and IAD. Fares have gone from 128 to 183 in the past 6 months. And that is on all the carriers to include FLYi and Air Tran.
We already knew we were not going to meet the covenants in January, otherwise we would not have redone them. I am sure the 4 lenders knew this also.
We are expanding service this April and going head to head with the LCC in Midway. Tilton is doing a decent job considering the environment and the unions he has to work with. From personal experience, I would rather fly an airplane then sit in an office for 50 hours a week. I’ve seen the other side of the fence and it is not as green as it looks. I’ll take flying and working with the company to get a successful enterprise going.
One last thing, everybody is complaining about their pensions. Pensions are thing of the past. There has not been one traditional pension started in the US in the past decade. It is time for us to move on and get a DB plan that we can control and that is not at the mercy of the company.
Let the flaming begin.
We already knew we were not going to meet the covenants in January, otherwise we would not have redone them. I am sure the 4 lenders knew this also.
We are expanding service this April and going head to head with the LCC in Midway. Tilton is doing a decent job considering the environment and the unions he has to work with. From personal experience, I would rather fly an airplane then sit in an office for 50 hours a week. I’ve seen the other side of the fence and it is not as green as it looks. I’ll take flying and working with the company to get a successful enterprise going.
One last thing, everybody is complaining about their pensions. Pensions are thing of the past. There has not been one traditional pension started in the US in the past decade. It is time for us to move on and get a DB plan that we can control and that is not at the mercy of the company.
Let the flaming begin.
I don't believe The Empire is anyway dead but I DO believe they will be back and ask for more since the pension fiasco is dragging on and revenue is low. Overall the 3 years in BK the company is hanging in there pretty good since they haven't given up really anything. They've just slashed and burned everyone's wages and stated be happy you have a job. Slash and burn can only go so far. If The Empire wants to improve morale then they need an openess to its employees and actually state where the hell they are going with everyone's money. The idea of keep sucking up your paycheck and don't bother to ask any questions because The Empire knows best has certainly not earned them any points.
The choice is either give up willingly with whatever they ask for when and where or fight. Some groups are amassing for just that and time will tell exactly if its the best option. The April/May dates are coming for the showdown. The Empire has said they will be ready in court.
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h34r:
The choice is either give up willingly with whatever they ask for when and where or fight. Some groups are amassing for just that and time will tell exactly if its the best option. The April/May dates are coming for the showdown. The Empire has said they will be ready in court.
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h34r:The business plan is not put in place yet? What the heck has managemnt been doing? They want to go head to head with Luv in mdw?
You talk about losing your a**! A couple of extra flight to china is not going to make this company profitable. What will make this company profitable is increased untilization and more productivity. Plus an increase in fares.
You can't lose $326M in the month of January, I don't give a flip who you are. And for the pensions. If you feel that way about them then you deserve absolutly nothing from them period. The taxpayer should not have to pay your pension.
You talk about losing your a**! A couple of extra flight to china is not going to make this company profitable. What will make this company profitable is increased untilization and more productivity. Plus an increase in fares.
You can't lose $326M in the month of January, I don't give a flip who you are. And for the pensions. If you feel that way about them then you deserve absolutly nothing from them period. The taxpayer should not have to pay your pension.
I will ask again. Besides repeated paycuts and pension reform, what is UAL's plan for recovery? As far as I can tell, there is none. Anyone care to dispute??uafa21 said:
The plan was oil to go back to $24 per barrel, a 10% paycut and fares to raise by 25%. Additioanally, they sought no payments and no interest for the next 12 months on aircraft.
They would like free rent from hub cities as Ua is the only airline that can take you directly to China and least we forget, they want the taxpayers to be burdined with the pension plan.
All this and Ua will make a modest profit of $10.48 this next year. Because they made a profit Tilton will get a bonus of $20M and another $50M bonus to be shared by officers of the company. Union employees get nothing because it didn't exceed plans.
The plan goes on into 2006 where Ua aquires U. The two together will become the nations largest airline. The two together will have the best route system in the east, west and central US. Because of this, Luv will reduce fleet capacity as no-one will want to travel in a cattle car anymore, thereby Ua will be able to increase fares more and profits will go to $12.48.
Got to have a little fun. Its Friday and I'm off this weekend for once.
They would like free rent from hub cities as Ua is the only airline that can take you directly to China and least we forget, they want the taxpayers to be burdined with the pension plan.
All this and Ua will make a modest profit of $10.48 this next year. Because they made a profit Tilton will get a bonus of $20M and another $50M bonus to be shared by officers of the company. Union employees get nothing because it didn't exceed plans.
The plan goes on into 2006 where Ua aquires U. The two together will become the nations largest airline. The two together will have the best route system in the east, west and central US. Because of this, Luv will reduce fleet capacity as no-one will want to travel in a cattle car anymore, thereby Ua will be able to increase fares more and profits will go to $12.48.
Got to have a little fun. Its Friday and I'm off this weekend for once.
Yeah, there are things that are being done besides labor. You have to remember, though, that labor was one of UAL's largest costs (and still is) when all the cutting took place. So obviously that cut will be one of the most apparent ones, while "smaller" stuff going on in the background is still taking effect.
For example, United Express LOST us money in 2004. To the tune of a couple of 100 million if I remember correctly. UAL put some Air Wisconsin routes up for contract this past December. Air Wisconsin is our MOST EXPENSIVE Express partner. Whoever replaces Air Wisconsin will be considerably cheaper. When this Express contract is finalized in the up and coming weeks or months, savings will start to kick in. But they haven't yet. There are other things, such as this, that will hopefully kick in as well as the year progresses (like aircraft lease negotiations, DIP refinancing, for example). Will it be enough to kill our losses? I don't know. But I do know you can't extrapolate out January's losses for the entire year and say we're dead.
And remember, January is historically a weak month (although the numbers were ugly) and those figures did not include all the pay cuts that took place in January (remember that we get paid for part of December in January and I'm pretty sure that is how it is accounted for as well.......someone correct me if I'm wrong) nor does it include the "benefits" (at least from an accounting standpoint) from pension cancellation.
For example, United Express LOST us money in 2004. To the tune of a couple of 100 million if I remember correctly. UAL put some Air Wisconsin routes up for contract this past December. Air Wisconsin is our MOST EXPENSIVE Express partner. Whoever replaces Air Wisconsin will be considerably cheaper. When this Express contract is finalized in the up and coming weeks or months, savings will start to kick in. But they haven't yet. There are other things, such as this, that will hopefully kick in as well as the year progresses (like aircraft lease negotiations, DIP refinancing, for example). Will it be enough to kill our losses? I don't know. But I do know you can't extrapolate out January's losses for the entire year and say we're dead.
And remember, January is historically a weak month (although the numbers were ugly) and those figures did not include all the pay cuts that took place in January (remember that we get paid for part of December in January and I'm pretty sure that is how it is accounted for as well.......someone correct me if I'm wrong) nor does it include the "benefits" (at least from an accounting standpoint) from pension cancellation.
UAL's recovery plan...REACT REACT FRET REACT FRET REACT TAKE TAKE MORE , HOPE HOPE HOPE HOPE HOPE HOPE HOPE HOPE REACT HOPE HOPE (ad nauseum)...
Get this animal someone who can manage it or put the friggin beast out of its misery!
Morons.
Get this animal someone who can manage it or put the friggin beast out of its misery!
Morons.
casual rat
Senior
- Aug 25, 2002
- 413
- 3
Space, you forgot "reward myself with a nice bonus", after doing the aforementioned UAL processes....
Air Wisconsin is pretty expensive but I have to admit of all the partners those peeps are pretty good. When Great Lakes was up there I wanted to scream since they had no clue if the plane even left the tarmac. Skywest is no champion either but one can at least get through on the phone if they don't update the frickin' FLIFO system so i can tell a pax when the hell they can meet their family at the airport.
Just be ready and not surprised when The Empire comes for you soon.
I can hear them already...
You don't know the power of the Darkside
h34r:
Just be ready and not surprised when The Empire comes for you soon.
I can hear them already...
You don't know the power of the Darkside
h34r:
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
- 10,721
None of the airlines except WN is capable of living with fuel at $50/BBL. Even the other LCCs have alot of exposure to higher fuel prices. OPEC has clearly realized that they can push fuel above $40/BBL and the world economy keeps humming so that is now the new floor. Spikes will go even higher than that.
I haven't seen a report this a.m. but we can all hope that this weekend's fare hike will stake. With everyone except for WN significantly exposed - and even WN minimally exposed - no airline should hesitate to raise fares by a couple dollars given the high loads being carried.
Sustained high fuel prices could well finally be the catalyst that leads to industry restructuring. Operating in bankruptcy means UA and US are far more vulnerable but not one airline can carry on with their current business plans because none are based on oil at or above $50/BBL.
I haven't seen a report this a.m. but we can all hope that this weekend's fare hike will stake. With everyone except for WN significantly exposed - and even WN minimally exposed - no airline should hesitate to raise fares by a couple dollars given the high loads being carried.
Sustained high fuel prices could well finally be the catalyst that leads to industry restructuring. Operating in bankruptcy means UA and US are far more vulnerable but not one airline can carry on with their current business plans because none are based on oil at or above $50/BBL.
