Want afa-CWA representation? Just wait for the afa-CWA Raid

[donttouchthebeauty]

Any flight attendant group even considering going with AFA at this point should have their heads examined.

StrAAight you take the cake, As to FAMikey and Skymess, I don't know and haven't flown with anyone that wants anything you have but your pay... Cap on hours is a good thing, Our cap is 100 hours a month and who wants to work that much? If you had a cap, your furloughs would be back at this time, and we (AFA carriers) wouldn't have to fight a battle to get their recall rights extended, now that is sad, when your own union won't try to extend your recall rights. Yes I have so few friends and co-workers.. It kills me that mostly your co-workers try to be-friend me. I wouldn't even have to try to win a popularity contest with any of you, My personality and demeanor wins me more than enough friends. Also did you guys see it plastered all over the news that AMR stocks plummeted yesterday due to poor revenues and increased competition, and Goldman Sachs said they weren't as well positioned as CAL and UAL... Comments on that????? Very interesting.. Lay it on me StrAAight, give me that edumedicated opinion of yours...

 

[JAMAKE1]

Wouldn't it be nice if these so called know it all's in AA's FA's CBA would quote all the rules we lost and why it is of so great importance, over the general quotes of we lost So Much more than anyone else.

Well, since you asked. You lost the following:

1. Trip Guarantee.
2. Premium pay on narrow body equipment.
3. Crew meals on international flights.
4. Holiday Pay.
5. The majority of your duty rigs.

Those are just the items I can pull off the top of my head. I will hand it to you though, you did indeed, keep your pensions (for now). Why are you guys being so defensive? I've attempted to be very diplomatic as to the reasons I advocate for AFA representation. I am certainly not boasting about having it better than any other airline. I've simply spelled out my reasoning for why I think a CBA is important. You are certainly entitled to disagree, but why do you guys have to do so with such venum? I've read through a lot of our union's constitution and bylaws. I happen to support the idea of representing as many unrepresented carriers as possible, under the same umbrella. It helps to establish parameters for parallel bargaining at the nagotiating table so that the bar can be raised for all airlines. I am fully aware that the AA payscale is higher, since our two rounds of give-backs at United, but, I think our MEC did the right thing by minimizing our quality of life issues as well as preserving our workrules. At the end of the day, workrules = money. So to suggest that we make less than our AA counterparts, doesn't paint an entirely complete picture, because all of the above pay factors add up considerably. Our union went at concessions at a different angle than your union did. Plus, our company went through bankruptcy, and had to concede, not once, but twice before the restructuring period was over.

 

[Skymess]

Well, since you asked. You lost the following:

1. Trip Guarantee.
2. Premium pay on narrow body equipment.
3. Crew meals on international flights.
4. Holiday Pay.
5. The majority of your duty rigs.

Those are just the items I can pull off the top of my head. I will hand it to you though, you did indeed, keep your pensions (for now). Why are you guys being so defensive? I've attempted to be very diplomatic as to the reasons I advocate for AFA representation. I am certainly not boasting about having it better than any other airline. I've simply spelled out my reasoning for why I think a CBA is important. You are certainly entitled to disagree, but why do you guys have to do so with such venum? I've read through a lot of our union's constitution and bylaws. I happen to support the idea of representing as many unrepresented carriers as possible, under the same umbrella. It helps to establish parameters for parallel bargaining at the nagotiating table so that the bar can be raised for all airlines. I am fully aware that the AA payscale is higher, since our two rounds of give-backs at United, but, I think our MEC did the right thing by minimizing our quality of life issues as well as preserving our workrules. At the end of the day, workrules = money. So to suggest that we make less than our AA counterparts, doesn't paint an entirely complete picture, because all of the above pay factors add up considerably. Our union went at concessions at a different angle than your union did. Plus, our company went through bankruptcy, and had to concede, not once, but twice before the restructuring period was over.

We never had trip guarantee.
narrowbody premium pay and holiday pay we only had for about a year. We still have narrowbody international premium pay.
Most of our work rules STAYED in place while we gave back the holiday pay and domestic narrowbody premium pay we had for such a short time.
We have crew meals on many international flights.

The biggest thing we lost was our hourly compensation.

I was a member of AFA when I worked for Tower Air. I thought they sucked THEN. You guys can keep gobbling up all the other airlines but you'd never win a vote at AA.

 

[TWskyliner]

We never had trip guarantee.
narrowbody premium pay and holiday pay we only had for about a year. We still have narrowbody international premium pay.
Most of our work rules STAYED in place while we gave back the holiday pay and domestic narrowbody premium pay we had for such a short time.
We have crew meals on many international flights.

The biggest thing we lost was our hourly compensation.

I was a member of AFA when I worked for Tower Air. I thought they sucked THEN. You guys can keep gobbling up all the other airlines but you'd never win a vote at AA.

We, (some of us) also lost a little something called "furlough pay" when APFA gave it back....and, As far as the statement, "you'd never win a vote at AA." With all due respect, I would'nt be so confident about that.

 

[Skymess]

and, As far as the statement, "you'd never win a vote at AA." With all due respect, I would'nt be so confident about that.

Guess we'll just have to wait and see.

 

[donttouchthebeauty]

Guess we'll just have to wait and see.

Yes we will, It should be a very smooth negotiation, considering the wealth and knowledge of your co-workers; during the next round of talks to start soon... Lets see; if you don't get a pay raise, and the pension is axed, I bet you will change your tune REAL fast. Oh and by the way, it isn't up to your union if the pension is axed, it is up to your management and they can sign that chapter 11 document at any time and be done with it and take more, in your talk during BK... We will see who's doing the chest beating and who's the almighty in the end. My crystal ball says, Zero pay increase and you MAY get to keep your pensions if all goes well.. :unsure:

 

[JAMAKE1]

Any flight attendant group even considering going with AFA at this point should have their heads examined.

Well let's see StraaighTaalk: Your union never even negotiated Trip Guarantee; nor did your union ever negotiate Reserve Override Pay; AND, according to Sky Mess, Holiday Pay lasted for only a year; AND your union had to fight to have crew meals reinstated on select routes and your layover mins **SUCK**; AND you haven't even been in bankruptcy...and you have the audacity to complain about AFA? And you guys conceded all of this outside the throws of Chapter 11 Restructuring? Give me a F**king Break! Plus, you surrendered furlough pay? (the TWA F/A's thank you). You can think whatever you want, but your union gave away the store outside of bankruptcy. So go ahead and spin it however you want: I will take my 5 paid holidays per year; my premium pay on narrow and wide body domestic flying, alike; all of my duty rigs (read, my right to decline); my reserve override pay; my holding pay; my understaffing pay; my right to opt up to additional hours; and my 4 hour call-out when I find myself on reserve (which is never), over all of the workrules APFA buckled under. As Don't Touch stated, your 3rd Q numbers stink. I would not be surprised if your company came back to your union for more concessions. But go right ahead...spin it however you deem appropriate...it is rather amusing.

 

[Skymess]

So go ahead and spin it however you want: I will take my 5 paid holidays per year; my premium pay on narrow and wide body domestic flying, alike; all of my duty rigs (read, my right to decline); my reserve override pay; my holding pay; my understaffing pay; my right to opt up to additional hours; and my 4 hour call-out when I find myself on reserve (which is never), over all of the workrules APFA buckled under. As Don't Touch stated, your 3rd Q numbers stink. I would not be surprised if your company came back to your union for more concessions. But go right ahead...spin it however you deem appropriate...it is rather amusing.

Well, I know for real how bad UAL is so your misinformation and false happiness with your situation is kind of laughable. I don't think we ever got an answer why you guys are trolling OUR board if YOUR airline is so fantastic? What's the real story here? Why the AA resentment. Could it be that you are both still upset that AA didn't hire either one of you?

 

[donttouchthebeauty]

Well, I know for real how bad UAL is so your misinformation and false happiness with your situation is kind of laughable. I don't think we ever got an answer why you guys are trolling OUR board if YOUR airline is so fantastic? What's the real story here? Why the AA resentment. Could it be that you are both still upset that AA didn't hire either one of you?

Denial - When you don't accept the topic at hand and choose to dicuss it, yet decide to revolt with insults... also commonly known as insecurity, fear, and jealousy. For what its worth, I never applied to AA nor would I. I applied to 2 carriers and were hired by both and chose both carriers for certain reasons. Never did I choose to apply at AA EVER... and thank god, it seems as if you all are miserable. Now maybe you would like to respond to your 3Q results and how you think your negotiations will go hot shot. Any thoughts on the matter??? More pay cuts or a raise??? What do you think since you are so informed over there??? Don't sway from the topic and answer a question with a question please..

 

[donttouchthebeauty]

Also for some information that might be helpful to you: you might want to check out the Alaska Airlines contract, who is AFA as well. Alaska used the CHAOS tactic (create havoc across our system) and won an industry leading contract. In particular, you should look at the duty day section at AFA.org in the Alaska contract.. can you say 10:30 minutes??? They have an industry leading contract and it was through the AFA.

 

[Fly]

You didn't apply at AA?!? :blink: Why not? I did......they actually hired me but I was already in training at UA, so I stayed there. My sister went to AA and she's quite happy there. Different strokes. I also applied to NW and TWA but they didn't hire me (feel lucky about that now).

Face it, none of these airlines are what they were back in the 80's (or earlier), so stop the acting. The job has become transportation to the pubs around the world, as far as I'm concerned, and that's all I ever wanted.

Have some respect for AA, at least they didn't have to face the judge for years like we did.


P.S. = Alaska may have 10:30 duty day, have you seen United's duty day? :down: My feet have!

 

[JAMAKE1]

Oh come on..Why would I even apply at AA? I grew up in San Francisco. AA has never even made a go of it on the west coast (think Air Cal and Reno Air). Look, I have no ill will towards AA. But on the other hand, you guys on this forum have spewed nothing but toxicity and I'm sorry, but to diminish our union (which, admittedly does have its faults) when APFA equally undersold its own membership (while not even being in bankruptcy) is a bit offensive. I don't get it. I am not saying United is better, and I am not suggesting any other airline is better. We have all been at the affects of a super capitalistic market correction. But I do take offense when it is suggested that anyone considering joining AFA needs to have their head examined, when from this vantage point, APFA, equally sold you guys down the river as well. Like I said, I have never initiated a dialogue about shop talk with AA flight attendants. But I've had many Hawaii layovers where the subject came up (with your DFW-based crews) and they have admitted that your union (APFA) totally folded. At the end of the day, yes, you all have your pensions, and better hourly pay, but, at the same time, we have maintained very good work rules and duty rigs. Is one better than the other? I am not suggesting that. I've met Patricia Friend and firmly believe that AFA National's motive is not to raid any other flight attendant union. At the same time, I do advocate bringing as many non represented carriers under the same union. I believe that Aisle Hopper was truly stirring the pot and I am sure that AFA national has its hands full without trying to "raid" the APFA. Why can't we all have a constructive dialogue about it without turning into a pissing contest? Yes, you have it better in some areas, we have it better in others. Why does this exchange have to be so hostile? Truce?

 

[FA Mikey]

You didn't apply at AA?!? :blink: Why not? I did......they actually hired me but I was already in training at UA, so I stayed there. My sister went to AA and she's quite happy there. Different strokes. I also applied to NW and TWA but they didn't hire me (feel lucky about that now).

Fly, I think we know, and familiar with donttouch's story. Comments like this show the insecurity of a person who has to spend all there time and energy talking about an airline they seem to have an bizarre contempt for.

Denial - When you don't accept the topic at hand and choose to dicuss it, yet decide to revolt with insults... also commonly known as insecurity, fear, and jealousy.

and thank god, it seems as if you all are miserable.

how you think your negotiations will go hot shot.

Any thoughts on the matter???

More pay cuts or a raise???

What do you think since you are so informed over there???

Don't sway from the topic and answer a question with a question please..

I wont, answer a question with a question. I will say this though. Interesting that you spend so much time and energy on all things AA. You talk as if you know everything about the company, its flight attendants, and its CBA. But truth is, and proven time and again. You are wrong and off base more often than not.

 

[Skymess]

Yes, you have it better in some areas, we have it better in others. Why does this exchange have to be so hostile? Truce?

Absolutely. Truce it is.....with you.

For the record, none of us said APFA didn't fold. We just said we'd rather have an independent union than be part of a big business union like AFA.

 

[Skymess]

Denial - When you don't accept the topic at hand and choose to dicuss it, yet decide to revolt with insults... also commonly known as insecurity, fear, and jealousy. For what its worth, I never applied to AA nor would I. I applied to 2 carriers and were hired by both and chose both carriers for certain reasons. Never did I choose to apply at AA EVER... and thank god, it seems as if you all are miserable. Now maybe you would like to respond to your 3Q results and how you think your negotiations will go hot shot. Any thoughts on the matter??? More pay cuts or a raise??? What do you think since you are so informed over there??? Don't sway from the topic and answer a question with a question please..

Hey, delusional one, I replied with facts and you choose to overlook them and author your own AA contract.

We may both work for major airlines but the similiarities end there. We do things differently, we have different style carts, different style service, different uniforms, different planes, different ways of bidding, different bases, and different contracts and manuals. You don't work here so you don't know what it's like.

Even if you know people in LGA, you still don't know what it's like. Your friends, or acquaintances, may be bidding/trip trade/mentally challenged and not know how to make the best of their schedule, or they just may not like their career.

Not only is every airline different, but every base at EVERY airline is different too. I fly INTL out of ORD. So far it's nothing like INTL out of DFW and both are completely different than INTL out of New York.

Unwad your panties and give it a rest already. We get the picture, you hate AA and can't believe that we like it.