Where Are We...
- Thread starter USA320Pilot
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PITbull
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- Dec 29, 2002
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"Contractual "snap backs" from June 30, 2002... Change of control section triggers.
This was pilot language. All groups had it in their summer restruc. agreements. In the winter restruc agreements, all groups gave it up, except 1 group for TWU,and AFA.
Mangement forgot to get it with the liquidation threat. They tried to get it after the fact and said we would not emerge from BK if we didn't give it up. LOL..... We didn't, we emerged......
This was pilot language. All groups had it in their summer restruc. agreements. In the winter restruc agreements, all groups gave it up, except 1 group for TWU,and AFA.
Mangement forgot to get it with the liquidation threat. They tried to get it after the fact and said we would not emerge from BK if we didn't give it up. LOL..... We didn't, we emerged......
Gotcha, thanks.
It's hard for me to believe that management has such a blatant disregard for employees/contracts now. All in all I felt like I was treated well during my years at the company.....my biggest beef was the occasional understaffed flight, but what is happening now is twilight zone material for sure.
I can't say that I would be inclined to just keep forking over more and more to a "management team" like the one you guys have now.
A FA in DCA is out on a medical level and has exhausted all of her sick time and is experiencing financial distress due to injuries she received in 3 seperate crashes dating back over the last 30 years or so (2 Convairs, 1 DC-9). Of course the company doctors are now denying that U has any liablilty for these injuries and they are not related to the crashes at all.....big surprise. Some FAs wanted to have a bake sale/raffle in the crew room to try to raise some money for her and inflight services ( I believe Sherri Hendry?) said sure.....no problem...as long as this FA agrees to sign something stating that she does not hold the company liable for any damages do to these injuries.
Nice way to treat someone that has been thru something like that and been with the company close to 40 years.
It just boggles my mind.
It's hard for me to believe that management has such a blatant disregard for employees/contracts now. All in all I felt like I was treated well during my years at the company.....my biggest beef was the occasional understaffed flight, but what is happening now is twilight zone material for sure.
I can't say that I would be inclined to just keep forking over more and more to a "management team" like the one you guys have now.
A FA in DCA is out on a medical level and has exhausted all of her sick time and is experiencing financial distress due to injuries she received in 3 seperate crashes dating back over the last 30 years or so (2 Convairs, 1 DC-9). Of course the company doctors are now denying that U has any liablilty for these injuries and they are not related to the crashes at all.....big surprise. Some FAs wanted to have a bake sale/raffle in the crew room to try to raise some money for her and inflight services ( I believe Sherri Hendry?) said sure.....no problem...as long as this FA agrees to sign something stating that she does not hold the company liable for any damages do to these injuries.
Nice way to treat someone that has been thru something like that and been with the company close to 40 years.
It just boggles my mind.
PITbull
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- Dec 29, 2002
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Fleazle,
I did not hear of this. I do know that AFA has a "Pegesus' Project. It is to assist those f/as who are experincing profound financial hardship. Tell her to call her Local LECP. The DCA AFA VP is a huge advocate of the "project" and goes all over the country for fund raising.
I did not hear of this. I do know that AFA has a "Pegesus' Project. It is to assist those f/as who are experincing profound financial hardship. Tell her to call her Local LECP. The DCA AFA VP is a huge advocate of the "project" and goes all over the country for fund raising.
FrugalFlyerv2.0
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- Oct 29, 2003
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Here's my $0.02 to this topic:USA320Pilot said:
1) How many times does one have to listen to managements transformation plan before saying 'enough'? How many rounds of concessions does it take?
While I myself am pro-management (more anit-union), the actions of USAirways management show to me that they are certainly not the brightest light in the harbor (and heck, I'm not even an employee of USAirways and I'm saying this). The management had the perfect opportunity in chtp. 11 to put together a Plan A and Plan B, to extract more than enough concessions/work rule changes, etc. and yet they dind't.
The exucse that management didn't see the growth of the LCCs is pretty lame. Jetblue/Airtran have 100's of planes on order - you don't need much higher than a high school degree to figure out that they can't possibly operate all of them out of JFK and ATL respectively. While SW does tend to stick to 'secondary' airports, SW does fly to/from the majors hubs (ie. DTW), and moreover, alfter seeing what SW did at BWI it was only a matter of time before they attacked another U hub.
2) What benefit is there for any airline (or investor) to purchase US Airways assets from a viable company instead of waiting for a chpt. 7 filing? The only draw back is that one might have to pay a little more in a chpt. 7 auction if there is more than 1 bidder, but if there is something you really want then you will pay for it. If I'm a CEO of a competing airline I'm not going to talk to U about purchasing assets, I'm going to be thinking of a plan to hasten U's demise.
OP
USA320Pilot
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- May 18, 2003
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- Thread Starter
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- #53
PitBull:
PitBull said: "Gee, it must be tuff every morning getting up and feeling that someone else, who you don't even know, holds you and your family's destiny. No, A320, you have given someone else control of your life, THAT IS RRESPONISIBILITY!"
USA320Pilot comments: PitBull, with all due respect, my financial house is in order, I have no debt, and prior to raising our family my wife made an income similar to my present pay. We are in a position to weather the storm if US Airways fails, thus your comment above may not be accurate.
Regardless, the ATSB and RSA hold all of the cards. Either management and labor agree on ways that permit the transformation plan to move forward or the airline and its employees will have their fate determined by the federal government and RSA.
It's really that simple -- labor has very little if any leverage.
By the way, I now understand that GECAS has let it be known that if S&P downgrades US Airways credit rating, they may pull the RJ financing.
Respectfully,
USA320Pilot
PitBull said: "Gee, it must be tuff every morning getting up and feeling that someone else, who you don't even know, holds you and your family's destiny. No, A320, you have given someone else control of your life, THAT IS RRESPONISIBILITY!"
USA320Pilot comments: PitBull, with all due respect, my financial house is in order, I have no debt, and prior to raising our family my wife made an income similar to my present pay. We are in a position to weather the storm if US Airways fails, thus your comment above may not be accurate.
Regardless, the ATSB and RSA hold all of the cards. Either management and labor agree on ways that permit the transformation plan to move forward or the airline and its employees will have their fate determined by the federal government and RSA.
It's really that simple -- labor has very little if any leverage.
By the way, I now understand that GECAS has let it be known that if S&P downgrades US Airways credit rating, they may pull the RJ financing.
Respectfully,
USA320Pilot
Don't plan on 1 more Airbus showing up...let alone 60. The credit rating is on the wall....and it's sliding toward the toilet rapidly.
Remember....it's Dave's choice to expend the companies funds on legal battles that they cannot win , it was not our choice.
Remember....it's Dave's choice to expend the companies funds on legal battles that they cannot win , it was not our choice.
28yearsnojob
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- Jan 2, 2004
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Right where is the plan .There is no plan the only plan is cut cut cutsell sell sell
UseYourHead
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- Apr 1, 2003
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PITbull,
I was simply responding to someone who said: "Most everyone I talk to, is looking forward to a year off, with unemployment..."
I am not looking forward to anytime on unemployment, and will do everything possible to avoid that. So you say there are many here that don't want to be here, and so instead of quiting they would rather the airline fail? Thats a great bunch of co-workers you have there.
I am very pro-union, and someone deserves unemployment when they need it while looking for a job. I am sad to think people think of it as a year off with pay...that is abuse in my book when that is your plan...sorta like abusing sick leave...calling in sick when your not sick to collect the $...that is stealing. Because management does it (the wrong thing) does not make it ok for us.
Lastly PITBull, my paycut already amounts to more than two times what you make per year. We have all sacrificed BIG, myself included. That doesn't change where we are, or how things will play out from here.
Do I want to raise the bar for my profession and yours? Absolutly, but we have to be working here to do that, which is what the whole debate is about.
Can you "raise the bar" if your unemployed? Who is doing better right now working for an airline; the people at Continental who went through multipul bankrupcies, or the people at Eastern who really showed Lorenzo?
Think about it!
I was simply responding to someone who said: "Most everyone I talk to, is looking forward to a year off, with unemployment..."
I am not looking forward to anytime on unemployment, and will do everything possible to avoid that. So you say there are many here that don't want to be here, and so instead of quiting they would rather the airline fail? Thats a great bunch of co-workers you have there.
I am very pro-union, and someone deserves unemployment when they need it while looking for a job. I am sad to think people think of it as a year off with pay...that is abuse in my book when that is your plan...sorta like abusing sick leave...calling in sick when your not sick to collect the $...that is stealing. Because management does it (the wrong thing) does not make it ok for us.
Lastly PITBull, my paycut already amounts to more than two times what you make per year. We have all sacrificed BIG, myself included. That doesn't change where we are, or how things will play out from here.
Do I want to raise the bar for my profession and yours? Absolutly, but we have to be working here to do that, which is what the whole debate is about.
Can you "raise the bar" if your unemployed? Who is doing better right now working for an airline; the people at Continental who went through multipul bankrupcies, or the people at Eastern who really showed Lorenzo?
Think about it!
And just how low are you willing for Dave to lower the bar before you tell him to stuff it, UYH?
As far as unemployment goes, most of these people have been working for a very long time. The companies have been paying into the unemployment system on their behalf and now that the Democrates opened us up for attacks by muslim fanatics and the Republicans have trashed the economy, they're out of jobs. They deserve they're unemployment benefits for as long as it takes to find other comparable jobs/compensation. Given the crappy state of affairs in the country's employment situation, that's going to be a long time.
As far as unemployment goes, most of these people have been working for a very long time. The companies have been paying into the unemployment system on their behalf and now that the Democrates opened us up for attacks by muslim fanatics and the Republicans have trashed the economy, they're out of jobs. They deserve they're unemployment benefits for as long as it takes to find other comparable jobs/compensation. Given the crappy state of affairs in the country's employment situation, that's going to be a long time.
USA320pilot,
If you financial house is in order, then why are you even entertaining the thought of more concessions. If these guys can't make U function with what they have taken from your employee groups then I don't think they can ever make it work. Why are you thinking of prostituting yourself even further?
If you financial house is in order, then why are you even entertaining the thought of more concessions. If these guys can't make U function with what they have taken from your employee groups then I don't think they can ever make it work. Why are you thinking of prostituting yourself even further?
Walmartgreeter
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- Mar 6, 2003
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Maybe that good. RJ's are NOT the single answer to future success, especially at the expense of CHEAPER new mainline jets (ask Airtran) and even cheaper older jets (look at NWA). Of course there is a place for them, and probably an even bigger place for the new larger jungle jets U has ordered....but its the product, not the jet that will make or break U. The future is low cost COMBINED with great service and larger jets with entertainment systems. I smell a rat...why would U want to be bringing in 60 MORE mainline jets if they are not the way to go? I do indeed think the new U RJs will be a great addition , not replacement, to the system. If the financing falls through on the RJ order, what does this do the the "non existant" plan??....oh my, the possibilities for ulitmatums just keep growing and growing. Maybe some news out of the MEC meeting today will clear things up as to the goings on in CCY.USA320Pilot said:
Very well said Frugal Flyer....FrugalFlyerv2.0 said:
Look, all you have to do is ask youself a few questions.
Question 1: Why is US Airways trying to sell itself off in pieces.
Answer 1: Because it couldn't sell the whole thing! US Airways has been "for sale" for the last 4 years. UAL, once a potential acquirer backed off the purchase when its own internal problems came to light. These internal problems at UAL have still not been solved.
Question 2: Why does US Airways say they are going to acquire 60 Airbus aircraft?
Answer 2: Well... They gotta say something...
Doesn't ANYBODY see how REDICULOUS it is for US Airways management to be selling assets on one hand and acquring them on the other? And all of this in the midst of a cash crisis! Furthermore, US Airways already has 279 aircraft which cannot make a profit. Why add 60 more loss-makers to the system?
And here we go with the UCT again... Once again... UAL DOES NOT HAVE THE CAPITAL TO INVEST IN US AIRWAYS. PERIOD.
Furthermore, any potential acquirer would have to believe that US Airways, or some of its parts, have the capacity to make profit. I think that most acquirers believe that US Airways has no ability to make profit, whole or parts. Do some assets hold value? Certainly, and we'll get to see that at the Ch.7. Liquidation.
In my opinion, US Airways "White Knight" will not be another airline. None of them want the extreme headaches that come along with US Airways. Fleet integration, Workforce integration, hubs that need closing, A Shuttle that needs to be revamped... 12 commuter partners to be managed (or whatever the number is now). No, US Airways only hopes for a "White Knight" are Jonathan Orienstein and/or Richard Branson... Because those two individuals want to run a major US Airline at any price.
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