Why Tim Nelson is Dangerous to IAM-represented employees at United Airlines

[Tim Nelson]

Tim, one of your videos before TA 1 vote talked about them outsourcing bagroom and displacing people onto ramp and other areas. The new CBA language allows greater cross utilization. Will this also mean more part-time and less overtime for the people who are lucky enough to stay? Are the 1200 you speak of from complete closures or outsourcing certain functions?

Josh

The new Ta, while tragic, hasn't fully manifested itself at this point. I'm uncomfortable answering your questions about this since the answers to your questions are up to the sole and exclusive decisions of management. In short, I don't know.  What we do know is that management can increase part time and can contract out the forementioned.  Will they?  Let's hope not. At this point, Delaney's expressed opinion that he didn't believe management would take advantage of the new policy guide has just as much validity as mine or yours. Time will tell and, in this case, I truly hope Delaney is right.

 

[737823]

I flew UA from terminal C last month and the IAM steward said he fully expects PVD to close soon but that is unlikely they would be able to hold BOS. I imagine BDL will also get whacked soon too. When MHT closed in 2009 many of those agents came to BOS.

Josh

 

[WorldTraveler]

part of that $500M in cost efficiencies that UA laid out in their investor presentation.

 

[737823]

Roach looks like he was about to wet his pants with the excitement of new dues payers!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAD09klNbrI


"We could never underestimate the Teamsters...These guys don't fool around when it comes to organizing"

"We are going to do everything possible, everything legally and humanly possible, to enhance your wages, benefits, and working conditions, so you can have the excellent contract, the industry leading contract, you put your faith in us, and rest assured we will deliver"

How well did that work out Roach?

Would be interesting to see Roach work on the ramp and in the pit of an aircraft, especially under these terms.

Josh

 

[Tim Nelson]

I flew UA from terminal C last month and the IAM steward said he fully expects PVD to close soon but that is unlikely they would be able to hold BOS. I imagine BDL will also get whacked soon too. When MHT closed in 2009 many of those agents came to BOS.

Josh

Both BDL and PVD had grandfather class one protection. I still believe they do however, I don't believe MF will fight for that if one of them gets contracted out.  The grandfather clause disappeared out of the contract even though it was never voted against.  There were over 100 word changes and disappearances after the 2008 contract vote. MC wanted to arbitrate it and I was in attendance with him and Delaney when Delaney told him to work with management and forget about it.  MC sent AH a letter demanding that the voted upon contract language be included in a new contract printing.  Seems AH called Delaney and squashed that idea. Not justifying how MC ended up dialing out imo but he bucked Delaney one time and Delaney busted his balls and sent him to about 20 west coast stations.  Then I think MC threw in the towel for good and figured it was ridiculous working with Delaney.

 

[737823]

Both BDL and PVD had grandfather class one protection. I still believe they do however, I don't believe MF will fight for that if one of them gets contracted out.  The grandfather clause disappeared out of the contract even though it was never voted against.  There were over 100 word changes and disappearances after the 2008 contract vote. MC wanted to arbitrate it and I was in attendance with him and Delaney when Delaney told him to work with management and forget about it.  MC sent AH a letter demanding that the voted upon contract language be included in a new contract printing.  Seems AH called Delaney and squashed that idea. Not justifying how MC ended up dialing out imo but he bucked Delaney one time and Delaney busted his balls and sent him to about 20 west coast stations.  Then I think MC threw in the towel for good and figured it was ridiculous working with Delaney.

"Had" as in under the former ramp and PCE agreement? Based on the current agreement, my understanding is they have no scope and UA can outsource them at will tomorrow should they choose. Tim, do you know about MIA? It is sCO mainline, sUA was partially outsourced several years ago and before the merger was an all Express operation, CO has always been mainline.

Josh

 

[Kev3188]

Josh--
 
I believe Tim is referring to US' operations in BDL & PVD. IIRC, both stations were granted (or retained?) Class I status right before the 2008 ramp contract came up for a vote.

 

[737823]

Josh--
 
I believe Tim is referring to US' operations in BDL & PVD. IIRC, both stations were granted (or retained?) Class I status right before the 2008 ramp contract came up for a vote.

So as it is now, US has much stronger scope than UA. Pretty sure US is mainline fleet service at BDL, MHT, MIA, PVD and certainly BOS. Will be interesting to see how this plays out in the merger, hopefully they will hold the line on scope. That brings me to my next question: the association agreement lists stations and which union members will pay dues to. BDL, MHT, PVD, etc aren't listed. What does that mean? They don't intend to fight for scope in those stations going forward? AA serves BDL, ramp was contracted however passenger service is still mainline. But of course AA isn't in MHT or PVD. What do you make of this?

http://www.usaamerger.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Mechanic-and-Related-Association-Agreement1.pdf

Josh

 

[700UW]

The IAM/TWU Mechanic and Related Alliance agreement has nothing to do with this thread.
 
Once again this about about UA and the new CBAs.

 

[737823]

The IAM/TWU Mechanic and Related Alliance agreement has nothing to do with this thread.
 
Once again this about about UA and the new CBAs.

I was asking about UA at BDL and PVD, but responded to Kev and Tim who brought up US. Have anything substantive to contribute to the discussion? Any remarks on the video I posted above?

Josh

 

[700UW]

And everyone is talking about Fleet and PCE, not M&R, M&R at UA are Teamsters.
 
So what you posted about the IAM/TWU Mechanic and Related Alliance agreement has nothing, I repeat, nothing to do with UA Fleet and PCE.
 
Is that too hard for you to understand?
 
Do I need to tell Rick you are posting from work while he is paying you?

 

[T5towbar]

The IAM is hurting airline workers collectively, not DL. DL ready reserve has been around for nearly 30 years, people like the program and the flexibility it offers. No different than other industries transitioning away from full time benefited positions and towards part-time/contract/consultant type arrangements, similar to the growing reliance on adjunct faculty at colleges and universities. How come you didn't condemn part-time reserve the IAM willingly added at Hawaiian Airlines, completely identical to DL ready reserve? What about the fact that most/all of the stations NWA contacted out went to Air Wisconsin, also part of DL 143 allowing the IAM to continue to collect dues? How about all the Air Wisconsin staffed stations at UAL? Bottom line is people are gladly willing to work under the terms DL is offering, I have seen college students, retirees working in DL ACS under the RR program. If you are too good for those terms, don't work for DL but having that attitude because it isn't up to your standards others should not avail themselves to it is outrageous. A program like RR actually would be in the interest of the IAM, more heads to collect dues from although dues per employee would be smaller under the current scheme driven by hourly wage.

Again Kev has ignored the question, but it speaks volumes about the value of union representation when the unorganized sCO passenger service employees join the IAM and then find themselves out of a job or needing to relocate to a hub to maintain employment. Why did DL 141 willingly sign away sCO cargo jobs? They should have taken the better of the two agreements and worked to bring sUA cargo work back in house, which the IAM also gave away years ago.

Josh

 
I have to ask a few things to this:
 
Why wasn't the BTW wing  Express work at IAD won by the IAM? They got the ATW work, but not the BTW. Was that a tacit agreement between 141 and 142 to keep the dues flowing?  IMHO, ALL hub work should be ours. Same as the DEN situation with SkyWest. But I digress......
 
The pilots really hurt us. We don't have a small M/L aircraft like the 190 or the 717 that AA/US and DL has. The 50 seaters really kills leverage. We don't have a lot of the larger RJ's in our system, but the 175's will be coming online, and I don't know how that's going to play out in the line stations. And how many we will lose in this deal.
 
They rolled over and gave up our Cargo. "Harmonizing" was the excuse, but we now know the real reasons. It was wrong to give up a great service that was making money. Continental Cargo was a profitable operation, and I'm quite sure that there are enough experienced people to make the combined United a profitable cargo operation. Now look at it now. It's in shambles. It should have been fought for and we should have won it back. In the IBT/IAM vote, we knew that the IAM was going to give up Cargo, and that sadly came true.
 
As far as the RR program, I have mixed feelings about it. Should it be a entry point into getting a job? Should it be flexible PT? I don't know enough about DL's program, but I know that most people don't want their hours capped, and want more than a fixed pay rate. Does it drive down everyone elses wages in the industry? IMHO, yes. That keeps the "race to the bottom" going with each vendor going lower and lower to get the work. Plus, we don't have a DGS or a Eagle to have a automatic "C" scale workforce.  They in fact do a lot of our work. That also keeps the money "in their house" so to speak.
 
IMHO, the sCO ATW is very wary of this union. They were strongly anti-union, but we will see what happens.
 
This union needs some serious change. New ideas; fresh blood. People that will FIGHT!

 

[cltrat]

actually it's a thread however stupid a suggestion that it is, that Tim Nelson is dangerous to UA/IAM members so you're both wrong.

 

[Kev3188]

What do you make of this?

I honestly don't know. Maybe the intent is to have all of those cities fall under BOS as a sort of "one station agreement?" That's just a WAG, though.
 
 

I have to ask a few things to this:
 
Why wasn't the BTW wing  Express work at IAD won by the IAM?...

EXCELLENT QUESTION. Maybe Lehive  JetJob'll weigh in.
 
 

As far as the RR program, I have mixed feelings about it. Should it be a entry point into getting a job? Should it be flexible PT? I don't know enough about DL's program, but I know that most people don't want their hours capped, and want more than a fixed pay rate. Does it drive down everyone elses wages in the industry? IMHO, yes. That keeps the "race to the bottom" going with each vendor going lower and lower to get the work. Plus, we don't have a DGS or a Eagle to have a automatic "C" scale workforce.  They in fact do a lot of our work. That also keeps the money "in their house" so to speak.

I'm okay with it being an entry point. I am not okay with the program's unchecked growth, and the knock on effects that come from that.

BTW, we have "seasonal" help now as well, so we actually have a de facto "D" scale employee group...
 

 

This union needs some serious change. New ideas; fresh blood. People that will FIGHT!

No doubt.

 

[737823]

I have to ask a few things to this:
 
Why wasn't the BTW wing  Express work at IAD won by the IAM? They got the ATW work, but not the BTW. Was that a tacit agreement between 141 and 142 to keep the dues flowing?  IMHO, ALL hub work should be ours. Same as the DEN situation with SkyWest. But I digress......

Based on the current agreement that is the case, I wonder what timeline the company has to bring that work in house. I imagine they are working with the district ans associated vendors, but at the same time there are 60+ stations on the chopping block that could be outsourced TODAY under the current agreement.
 

The pilots really hurt us. We don't have a small M/L aircraft like the 190 or the 717 that AA/US and DL has. The 50 seaters really kills leverage. We don't have a lot of the larger RJ's in our system, but the 175's will be coming online, and I don't know how that's going to play out in the line stations. And how many we will lose in this deal.
 
They rolled over and gave up our Cargo. "Harmonizing" was the excuse, but we now know the real reasons. It was wrong to give up a great service that was making money. Continental Cargo was a profitable operation, and I'm quite sure that there are enough experienced people to make the combined United a profitable cargo operation. Now look at it now. It's in shambles. It should have been fought for and we should have won it back. In the IBT/IAM vote, we knew that the IAM was going to give up Cargo, and that sadly came true.

I think keeping sCO cargo going, as you stated it was profitable and had won numerous awards and was a well run operation, really too bad the IAM rolled over on that one. It's amazing to me that they held the informational pickets at EWR and IAH but the IAM willingly gave that work away last summer.
 

As far as the RR program, I have mixed feelings about it. Should it be a entry point into getting a job? Should it be flexible PT? I don't know enough about DL's program, but I know that most people don't want their hours capped, and want more than a fixed pay rate. Does it drive down everyone elses wages in the industry? IMHO, yes. That keeps the "race to the bottom" going with each vendor going lower and lower to get the work. Plus, we don't have a DGS or a Eagle to have a automatic "C" scale workforce.  They in fact do a lot of our work. That also keeps the money "in their house" so to speak.

Kev and WT will be able to weigh in more on DL ready reserve but my understanding is this. The program has been in place for many years at DL and is used as a way to adjust staffing across flight schedule both on a time of day and seasonal basis at hubs and outstations alike. The concern Kev and other employees have expressed is the rapid growth of the program, it was once a small part of DL's staff but is now upto 50% of staffing in certain stations. That is what Kev has stated here before, not sure if that is 50% of headcount, 50% of hours, or what measure. The program is now used to backfill PT and FT roles and is also the primary way ACS and Ramp acquires talent at DL. They work roughly 200-1200 hours per year and are paid ~$11/hr and receive flight privileges and that's it. Some stations there are opportunities for RR to upgrade to full-time/part-time. Again this is my understanding, hopefully Kev can weigh in more on the specifics.
 

IMHO, the sCO ATW is very wary of this union. They were strongly anti-union, but we will see what happens.
 
This union needs some serious change. New ideas; fresh blood. People that will FIGHT!

Many of the sCO agents I know are not happy with the agreement, especially the ones at non-hubs slated for closure like MIA. Pretty crappy when you join a union and are told by organizers and union supporters we will protect your job, only to find out the union readily agreed to have many of these jobs cut, unless people pick up and move thousands of miles to a hub. My NLS/NTA Newark Language Speaker F/A friend, long a critic of the IAM and LL 2339N said also many of the agents at EWR feel the T/As are bad and also aren't pleased being dragged into the union.

Josh