Wings Alliance joins SkyTeam

Discussion in 'Delta Air Lines' started by JFK Fleet Service, Aug 22, 2002.

  1. Tim47SIP

    Tim47SIP Member

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    DVT wrote:
    My point is that the DL MEC is in no position to be hardass. They need to show some positive results after their FM defeat. They know the FM appeal will lose. If they can save face by getting some of their furloughed guys back to work (it will mean giving the shaft to the DCI guys) they will let the company go ahead with the Alliance codeshare deal.


    Exactly how will the DCI guys get the shaft. They cant fly the 100 seaters anyway, so they would have to be (and rightly so) flown at mainline by the furloughed mainline guys. Leo has stated that the 70 seaters are staying put at DCI, but I guess they could be diverted to mainline (but now we have an operational integration problem). The only other way I could see a resemblance of a shaft is if they put the 100 seaters at DCI and had the furloughed guys fly them with super seniority. But that wouldnt really affect people below them with different aircraft types. Exactly how do you see the J4J protocal working at Delta and what exactly will the effects be at DCI? Thanks.
    [8)]
     
  2. Busdrvr

    Busdrvr Veteran

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    Not really. What does the deal give DAL? more access to TX? About the only weak route areas for DAL are PAC, which still hasn't fully recovered, and latin america. Most of that flying would have to go through IAH. The U/UAL deal only works because of the HUGE hole in UAL operation. DAL may be weaker out west than UAL, but UAL doesn't really even exist in the deep south. Much more overlapp for the "trilateral". NYC? CAL and DAL, TX? CAL, DAL. Upper mid west? NWA X2, CAL, DAL. ironically, a better fit would be DAL & NWA, U/UAL/CAL
     
  3. DVT

    DVT Newbie

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    Tim;

    I am only offering my prediction of the outcome of the DMEC and DL’s negotiations regarding the proposed codeshare alliance. I have no inside knowledge regarding management’s proposal or the negotiations.

    Not long ago the DMEC was in the position of strength during the 777 pay negotiations, flexed their muscle and forced DL to back down on their international fleet upgrade plans. (In hindsight it was the best thing long term that ever have happened for DL.)

    Shortly after the DMEC again won big when they achieved a United plus pay scale.

    Shortly after, things began to turn around. After a moderately long strike, the Comair pilots accepted a TA that was, in essence, no different than the offer they had initially rejected.

    Then things really went south in a hurry. It is as if “The Perfect Storm” has hit the pilot group: too many qualified pilots without an airplane to fly, very successful low-cost/low-fare competitors, an economic downturn, very serious internal disputes inside ALPA, and then a devastating enemy sneak attack within our borders using our own commercial aircraft.

    After convincing the junior mainline guys that DL’s use of FM to implement furloughs was illegal, immoral and bad business, the DMEC lost the highly anticipated grievance decision.

    The rank and file is having a hard time understanding the tables have turned so quickly. I believe however that the DMEC is starting to understand their position of weakness and will do whatever it can to dispel any appearance of weakness. Any recall will be viewed as a major victory. Delta knows that the restructuring gives the DMEC an opportunity to do this and will take advantage of the situation. If need be, DL can dangle a recall to get just about anything they want.

    ALPA is well known for sacrificing juniors for the benefit of the seniors on the list. They are also notorious for stepping on regional pilot groups to benefit mainline. Since mainline is blaming the regional pilots for mainlines current situation, management will also take advantage of the bad blood between the two.

    This is why I have predicted that a deal will be struck in which the DMEC approves the alliance codeshare deal in exchange for some limited recall and some form of J4J. The DMEC will justify the deal as necessitated by DL’s restructuring plan. It will be management’s payback to ALPA for the previous 10 years.

    We will all know the exact details in the near future.
     
  4. DVT

    DVT Newbie

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    Tim;
    The silence from the usual antagonists is deafening. I am more sure than ever that what I described in my previous post is happening right now in some smokey back room.
     
  5. luv2fly

    luv2fly Veteran

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    DVT,

    The Delta MEC has directed the negotiating committee to meet with managment in order to discuss a potential codeshare. I believe these meetings are scheduled to start in the next week or two.
     
  6. DVT

    DVT Newbie

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    luv;
    The "smokey back room" to which I refer is the DMEC's planning and strategy session which must occur prior to the meeting with DL.
     
  7. G4G5

    G4G5 Advanced

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    I seriously doubt that a codeshare deal will ever be reached. ALPA generates it's cash flow from membership. Any deal struck by the DAL MEC will require getting all the dues paying members back. You need to keep in mind that DAL/ALPA just took a 10% hit in cash flow, not to mention the existing membership is paying for the F'ed pilots health care bennies. The DAL MEC will also require some sort of gurantee that the F'ed pilots stay employed (keep paying dues to ALPA), this is also refered to as SCOPE.

    Mullin is not about to re-open Scope negotiations, and gurantee that all the furloughed pilots get recalled. Mullin can't possibly do this and institute the benefits of a codeshare(reduced flying).

    Another thing would be the DOT, they are not about to let CAL-EWR and DAL-LGA/JFK code share without some divestature of routes, gates or slots. I just don't see Bethune or Mullin giving anything back.

    It's all just smoke and mirrors to have the DOT vote no on the UAL/U codesahre.
     
  8. DVT

    DVT Newbie

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    DMEC reps will be in the pilot lounges this week to answer questions.
     
  9. JFK777

    JFK777 Veteran

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    CAL doesn't have a lock on EWR as DAL does in ATL or AA at DFW. DAL at LGA/JFK is big but doesn't even fly to many places AA does from JFK. DAL does continental Europe but not the UK, the biggest market: 40 % of the atlantic. DAL doesn't fly to Japan, they did from JFK, or the Caribean a very large AA market. IF any airlne should be singled our for giving up slots at JFK it should be AA, I don't endorse this idea though. JFK has more competition then most other major airports.
     
  10. G4G5

    G4G5 Advanced

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    AA give up JFK slot's, hello! Unlike a codeshare, we just paid for the TWA assets.

    The DOT would no doubt want slots from either DAL or CAL. Just look at the NY -ATL market DAL has countless out of LGA, either 4 or 5 out of JFK and CAL has 7 out of EWR. This is the type of thing that they will go after. Someone has to give up something. This is just one route, their are plenty more and the DAL/NWA mgt hasn't even seen what their pilot unions will want in return.
     
  11. DLFlyer31

    DLFlyer31 Senior

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    The DOT allows NW and CO to codeshare on routes where they are the only two dominant carriers. Look at the NYC-DTW market. NW flies to both LGA and EWR and CO flies to EWR. The two are dominant...yet the DOT had no problem.

    As for your NY-ATL example, DL only runs three flights to JFK from ATL. Two of which exist solely to feed the int'l ops....O+D traffic is pretty light. Also, there is lowfare competition in this markets with Airtran flying EWR-ATL and LGA-ATL. Airtran has done well on these routes and a DL/CO hook-up would have little effect.

    As for DL being able to recall furloughed pilots and do a codeshare, I think it is possible. If DL can pick up a 100 seat plane and fly it on mainline that alone would solve many of the problems. The 100 seater could fly some routes too long and thin for current mainline and also upgrade a number of RJ routes where extra-capacity is needed.

    US is also giving up a lot of capacity in many DL markets and also doing plenty to p*ss off their best customers. These former U customers represent a real opportunity for DL to gain marketshare....and the way to gain marketshare will be with mainline planes (and RJ's also).

    Finally, factor in future retirements and I think DL could work out an agreement that both recalls furloughed pilots and allows for a codeshare. The big question is whether DL can craft a deal that the pilots will really like (how fast the recalls occur, scope violation issues,etc)??
     

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