Women in Combat

[PlayTheOdds]

Womens Lib. has pushed for years for equality in the military, are women now going to blow it? I spent four years in the military in a MOS that was open to women. They could not or would not perform their duties and were usually pushed off to some admin. job just to get them out of the way. Problem with that is we didn't get another soldier in their place, which put us low on manpower. This was something that was simply dealt with until we were deployed during Operation Desert Shield/Storm. We were sent out there without 20% of or allotted manpower. One female did deploy with us but was sent back after three weeks. We spent the whole time out there understaffed but on paper we had our allotted manpower.

Now that women have made it into close combat support units and are having to actually deploy they want to cry foul. Do they not understand what the military is used for? Do they not understand what war is? So much for equality among men and women in combat. I knew it was a farce from the get go. I can't believe it has taken the military and women fifteen years to realize it.

 

[Seatacus]

Call me old-fashioned but think that our daughters have no place in combat. That job should be men only, who are so good at breaking and killing our enemies.

 

[sentrido]

Have you ever met a woman scorned? I think they can kill just fine...

 

[SilentWarrior]

You are always going to get good and bad apples no matter if they are male or female. In both cases (male and female) I served with those that excelled at their jobs, and those that were a constant problem. As a NCO I had to figure out ways to improve performance both individually and as a team. Some times it worked, other times it did not. I do believe that you should not join if you are not willing to give the maximum of your abilities. To do less only jeopardises your safety and the wellbeing of those around you. The same amount of professionalism and dedication to duty should be expected from those that serve in PAC as those that are out at 2 am for a drop into Sicily DZ. I didn’t care if you were male or female.

I do understand where PTO is coming from, or at least the misconception. When we went to Shield/Storm there was a female in our unit that let it be known that she was trying to get pregnant so she did not have to go. Needless to say, she was handed her walking papers. Did she accomplish what she wanted? Yes, but it also removed a morale-leech from the rest of the unit.

On the other side of the coin, I had to send home a male soldier who was a DUI offender. I also had to pack home a male soldier that had a drug problem. In both these cases they were sent to programs to help them, counselled, monitored, and I gladly gave of my free time to try to help them along the way. It just didn’t work out for one reason or another, so my only recourse was to send them home.

The one thing I never figured out during my time in the military was this little mystery. I ran my APFT in 12:30-13:10 area, and considered myself in very good shape. I went to the gym daily, and ate right. How the heck did the chain-smoking, 2 barrels of coffee drinking, non-stretching, more time than Patton NCO fly by me every time? I always shook my head when I saw my fellow NCOs at the morning meeting with the CO and Top drinking coffee, smoking cigs like they were going to run out today, not stretch during PT, and run everyone to death going to Iron Mike. Riddle me this...

I may have carried the misconception that PTO stated at one time as well. I think it was my CO in Korea that changed that for me. I first met her for about a second as she flew by me during my first APFT in country. As we got to work together over the next few months, I found her to be a force of nature and able leader.

As I said, you will have junk from time to time. You will also have gems. Being male or female plays little in that equation.

 

[PlayTheOdds]

I think you are taking my post out of context. Yes there are many male soldiers that are lacking. If you took a squad of ten male soldiers you will have two or three on average that are lacking. If you took a squad of ten women you will find that seven or eight are lacking on average. It is not a misconception but a statement of fact. In my units at 133rd Ord Det. and 71st Ord Co. not one single female worked her MOS much less fielded with us. That is a 100% failure rate for women in that MOS. That also went along for the other support MOS's. You will always have a "Gem" if given enough opportunities. I just don't think that putting other soldiers short on manpower is worth hunting for that very occasional "Gem".

 

[SilentWarrior]

I guess it is all based on experience. I went to Shield/Storm with an ADA unit, and all but the one female went and worked in their MOS. You can not state something as fact when I can just as easy pull up examples from my experiences that dispute those “factsâ€￾. In general females are not as physically strong as males, but I would not have hesitated to put one of my female soldiers against any of your male soldiers on a technical or tactical basis.

I guess COMMO is made of sterner stuff than 3rd Shop units, or maybe it was the wings on their chest. B)

 

[Seatacus]

Have you ever met a woman scorned? I think they can kill just fine...

How about a platoon of amazons on PMS.......

 

[wnbubbleboy]

How about a platoon of amazons on PMS.......

That would be the WNBA.

 

[PRINCESS KIDAGAKASH]

PTO,the Woman hating,AMT profession destroying,unmoral,unethical,pencil whipping scab.

I have a very hard time believeing that you were ever in the military PTO. If you were,then you must have been dishonorably discharged or you never made it out of bootcamp. Your crediability is lacking,PTO.

You're the type of guy who would pick up an enemy grenade and throw it over to foxhole next to you instead of throwing it back to the enemy. You are definitely someone I would not want by my side in a fire fight.

 

[CSAR GYRENE]

PTO,the Woman hating,AMT profession destroying,unmoral,unethical,pencil whipping scab.

I have a very hard time believeing that you were ever in the military PTO. If you were,then you must have been dishonorably discharged or you never made it out of bootcamp. Your crediability is lacking,PTO.

You're the type of guy who would pick up an enemy grenade and throw it over to foxhole next to you instead of throwing it back to the enemy. You are definitely someone I would not want by my side in a fire fight.

Seriously kid, let go of the hate...This thread was to debate the merits of having females in combat. while I dont doupt your experience in civilian aviation, I would ask, in all fairness, to try and stay on topic. If you have military experience, by all means share it. If all you can muster is hate filed rhetoric, please reserve it for the proper forum. While I do enjoy the little tet'e'tet you and pto share on the NWA board, lets try and keep at least one board here civil. Please understand that this is not an attack on you, but rather an attempt to bring a bit more decency into a fairly unfriendly world. Thanks kid.

 

[PlayTheOdds]

PTO,the Woman hating,AMT profession destroying,unmoral,unethical,pencil whipping scab.

My dearest Princess with the hideous avatar I see your adjectives for me continue to grow. Do you think of them on a whim or do you lay in the bed at night and think deep and hard about them?

CSAR has a very good point, where you ever in the military?

Also Silent Warrior suggest that it might be the wings, I wonder if they were the same wings issued at Ft. Bragg when the base commander was determined that every soldier on his base were to have wings pinned? There were guys that went to Bragg and then I met again in Germany in my MOS that had acquired their wings at Bragg. First off this was an MOS that no soldier had any business having wings, second some of these guys might have been great mechanics but as far as actually going through the training and completing it to be an actual Airborne Soldier is questionable. They will tell you the same.

 

[CSAR GYRENE]

My dearest Princess with the hideous avatar I see your adjectives for me continue to grow. Do you think of them on a whim or do you lay in the bed at night and think deep and hard about them?

CSAR has a very good point, where you ever in the military?

Also Silent Warrior suggest that it might be the wings, I wonder if they were the same wings issued at Ft. Bragg when the base commander was determined that every soldier on his base were to have wings pinned? There were guys that went to Bragg and then I met again in Germany in my MOS that had acquired their wings at Bragg. First off this was an MOS that no soldier had any business having wings, second some of these guys might have been great mechanics but as far as actually going through the training and completing it to be an actual Airborne Soldier is questionable. They will tell you the same.

Thought I might chime in again about the WAY over issuance of wings, ribbons, badges, trinkets and what-nots todays military is giving away.
First off, to all you guys wearing the budwieser, dudes, ya EARNED it, and my Marine dress blue cover is off to you. Same goes to all who wore the black beret LOONG before some idiot in the high command decided everyone should wear it. (god what a f$%$ed up decision that was!)
As fo rthe rest of us, I wear a pair of gold Navel Aircrewman wings that I had pounded into my chest the old fasioned way before some priss in washington decided that an act looked upon by those who endured as a great honor was just plain mean. Hazing my JARHEAD a$$.
....sorry, flashbacks fro nam again!!!!

 

[Dea Certe]

Gee,

I didn't know one could just "opt out" of doing their job in the military. Male or female, I thought you had to do the assignment or get a DD. Not true anymore?

One of my aunt's was a WAVE nurse years ago and I'd bet money she could have opened the proverbial can of whup-butt pretty much any time she felt the need. Even the uncles were afraid of her! h34r:

Dea

 

[CSAR GYRENE]

Gee,

I didn't know one could just "opt out" of doing their job in the military. Male or female, I thought you had to do the assignment or get a DD. Not true anymore?

One of my aunt's was a WAVE nurse years ago and I'd bet money she could have opened the proverbial can of whup-butt pretty much any time she felt the need. Even the uncles were afraid of her! h34r:

Dea

Regrettably, If a woman gets pregnent on active duty, she has the option of a medical discharge. This is not an uncommon occurance.
As for the capabilities of women in combat, boy, that is a charged issue. I very fondly remember a WM, also known as BAMS, (Broad a$$ Marines) who was one of the best friends I had in the Corps. She could out fight, out drink, and out drive most men, and was absolutely fearless! Despite this, she herself stated that women dont belong in front line units.
The problem is that with the state of modern warfare, there is very little "Front line" left. The failure of the 507th proved that even REMF supply clerks need to know basic combat skills. Of course, if the Army is going to give the Bronze star to some cute little blond, simply for failing to keep her weapon in operating order and remaining unconcious until rescue, what can we expect?

 

[PlayTheOdds]

Hey don't forget the moon time. That is an instant profile not to have to do any twenty-four hr. CQ or field duty. Should I have felt sorry for the ones that had their moon times for an entire month? Naa I don't think so.