Wsj: Us/awa Seek Allies For Merger

[Fly]

Hharotz:

Thanks for the info.

I believe the Air Canada interest in US Airways - America West, along with the Star Alliance, is due the increasing likelihood United will see a material downsizing as its last attempt to survive, which could occur in the not-so-distant future.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

[post="266394"][/post]​

Get your head out of the sand. This is US last attempt before death. If this merger doesn't happen, US is DEAD! You've been beating your anti-UAL drum for years.....and you've ALWAYS been wrong. Nice track record



FWIW, there will be NO strike from AFA, they are all about $$$. Considering that AFA United is the cash cow of the union, they would NEVER jeopardize the dues. NEVER!!!!

Who knows what mechanics will do. But the buzz is that there will be a lockout before they can do anything anyway. I heard over a year ago, that getting rid of the mechanics was the main objective. Here was the story I was told:

We are in the people moving business, not the airplane fixing business.

We shall see. But I'm thinking ala JetBlue heavy checks.

Enjoy your spin USA320peelot.

 

[whlinder]

How are hubs at PHL and PHX a great insurance policy for Star if UA goes under? PHL and PHX don't even come close to replacing the feed and O&D traffic that Star generates by having hubs in Chicago, Los Angeles, San Francisco and Washington DC.

 

[Bear96]

Oh let the Captain live his little fantasy. It's all he's got left. Thereisn't much time before he shows up to work one day and the doors are shuttered (while UA keeps flying -- at least for a little while longer), leaving him with a classic deer-in-the-headlights look.

 

[funguy2]

Yeah... And I have to think this... Many many US travellers already have the AC option. AC flies from YYZ to a lot of US destinations, including relatively small cities like CMH, ABE, MCI, etc. If US travellers want to connect in YYZ on their way to LHR... they already can. I just don't see a lot of American's stopping in Canada on their way overseas.

If anything, AC has invested a lot in transborder service... Their interest in HP-US is to continue growing US-Canada flights by feeding the international flights. Why? Because they've probably grown the transborder flights faster than demand. Just some thoughts.

 

[ClueByFour]

The average traveler is not going to go transborder to go transatlantic when domestic options are available. Well, they might do it once.

YYZ and YUL are a PITA, especially coming back.

 

[funguy2]

CluebyFour - I think we are in agreement on this one.

 

[jimntx]

I agree 110%....I am really starting to wonder about the long-term prospects of UA. US/HP is a great insurance policy for STAR if UA goes under.

[post="266395"][/post]​

Let's see. Replace an airline with worldwide scope including about half the US-Trans-Pacific with a merger of two airlines who have heavy competition domestically and a few flights on highly competitive routes to Europe, Mexico, and the Caribbean. Yeah, that's an even trade if I ever saw one.

 

[hharotz]

Let's see. Replace an airline with worldwide scope including about half the US-Trans-Pacific with a merger of two airlines who have heavy competition domestically and a few flights on highly competitive routes to Europe, Mexico, and the Caribbean. Yeah, that's an even trade if I ever saw one.

[post="266522"][/post]​

Well let's see....what eactly are STAR's options if UA does go under? I never implied that trading UA for US/HP is an even trade.

Who is still not formally tied down to an alliance?
1) Alaska
2) LCCs like WN/B6/etc who want nothing to do with an alliance

Although I agree that a combined US/HP doesn't offer the same reach as UA, it can still get STAR travellers to the ABEs and OAKs of America.

 

[hharotz]

How are hubs at PHL and PHX a great insurance policy for Star if UA goes under? PHL and PHX don't even come close to replacing the feed and O&D traffic that Star generates by having hubs in Chicago, Los Angeles, San Francisco and Washington DC.

[post="266428"][/post]​

Focus cities in DCA/LGA/BOS/FLL/PIT/LAS are nothing to laugh about either. I agree there is a huge 'hole' left in ORD/SFO/LAX but STAR carriers like LH/SQ/TG/OZ/NZ already have established service from these cities to feed their own hubs.

I PHL/PHX/CLT with a handfull of strong focus cities is better than nothing if UA closes the doors.

 

[hharotz]

The average traveler is not going to go transborder to go transatlantic when domestic options are available. Well, they might do it once.

YYZ and YUL are a PITA, especially coming back.

[post="266502"][/post]​

Not really true. People do it all the time in LHR/FRA/MUC/CDG/ZRH. They fly transatlantic to LHR or FRA or CDG where they then connect to VCE or BCN. If AC offers a breadth of transatlantic service from YYZ and sterile transit facilities, then I'd probably prefer to fly via YYZ then a dump like CDG or FRA.

AC atually does fly a considerable amount of Americans via YYZ to Europe and Asia (India and TLV). If you have an AC counter in your city stop by and ask the agents what kind of conections pax make in YYZ.

 

[whlinder]

If UA goes under (which I think there is less of a chance of happening than a combined HP/US going under), I expect Star would try to steal one of the 4 remaining US longhaul airlines. AA could be swayed to leave OW since they still can't get anti-trust immunity with BA, or one of the 3 SkyTeam members could be pursuaded to bail since they would be the primary U.S. feed carrier for the largest alliance in the world. US/HP would only be a temporary fill until one of the remaining Big 4 changes allegiances and then would go back to being the secondary Star feeder.
(Assuming US/HP stays in Star. I think they will but HP has a partnership with NW. I wonder who will call the alliances/revenue accounting shots for the new US/HP, since right now they seem to have different philosophies)

 

[whlinder]

Focus cities in DCA/LGA/BOS/FLL/PIT/LAS are nothing to laugh about either. I agree there is a huge 'hole' left in ORD/SFO/LAX but STAR carriers like LH/SQ/TG/OZ/NZ already have established service from these cities to feed their own hubs.

I PHL/PHX/CLT with a handfull of strong focus cities is better than nothing if UA closes the doors.

[post="266539"][/post]​

It is better than nothing, certainly, but Star will find an additional replacement.

LH/SQ/TG/OZ/NZ plus the others, SK, BD, RG, LO, OS that fly into UA hubs do so because of the feed by UA and the O&D traffic generated by cities that UA hubs. US can replace the feed but not the O&D.

 

[Busdrvr]

Busdrvr:

The source was from United Airlines.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

[post="266381"][/post]​

Oh, so you had Glenn Tilton on the jumpseat.... Did you give him any pointers?

 

[funguy2]

Not really true. People do it all the time in LHR/FRA/MUC/CDG/ZRH. They fly transatlantic to LHR or FRA or CDG where they then connect to VCE or BCN. If AC offers a breadth of transatlantic service from YYZ and sterile transit facilities, then I'd probably prefer to fly via YYZ then a dump like CDG or FRA.

AC atually does fly a considerable amount of Americans via YYZ to Europe and Asia (India and TLV). If you have an AC counter in your city stop by and ask the agents what kind of conections pax make in YYZ.

[post="266542"][/post]​

But there's the problem. AC doesn't fly to VCE or BCN... So those pax still must transit CDG/LHR/FRA. So now, for the hypothetical MCI-VCE pax, they must connect twice, once at YYZ and once at FRA (for example).

All else being equal, I think pax would prefer to transit the minimal number of national borders.

Plus, I am assuming, having never done this, that you arrive in Canada, clear Canadian customs, then go on to pre-clear US Customs... Who wants to deal with the extra step and the extra time for it?

 

[TheLarkAscending]

Oh, so you had Glenn Tilton on the jumpseat....  Did you give him any pointers?  

[post="266565"][/post]​

Yeah, here's what he said:

Let’s face it -- United's hurdles are deeper than US Airways were and thus the market skepticism about the Chicago-based carrier’s ability to emerge from bankruptcy.

Someone was reported to have overheard Glenn point out that hurdles are never deep, they are above ground and are meant to be jumped. Those deep hurdles would be rather an easy leap. Glenn laughed and laughed at the continuously flawed logic and analysis.