MCI, you said it better than anyone could have. The answer you got was expected. Us TWA'ers can not help it because the airline he worked for failed completely. It must not have had anything to offer. There was plenty that TWA had to offer, otherwise AA would not have been standing there ready to do what it did. Some people can not see the future because of their own past. Sorry that he is so bitter. Enjoy your retirement. I am and I am also thankful that I did not have to step foot on AA property as an employee. My own reasons for that, but I am thankful for it.
X- TWA flight attendants still hope to return to the skies
- Thread starter Barfbag
- Start date
MCI transplant
Veteran
- Jun 4, 2003
- 5,311
- 584
twaoka, please don't get me wrong! I'm not biter! In fact I feel AA as a Company did treat us better than the Unions we eventually were to become apart of. The exception to that is our Local here at MCI! And I give all the credit in the world for the efforts of all the individuals that are trying to keep us gone, under difficult circumstances! And the individual nAAtive I have come in contact with were good straight forward people!
You are right in that it was a very bad decision that AA has to live with. And let me make myself perfectly clear, we nAAtives have earned what we have and I am grateful to AA for giving me an opportunity to work there. We have earned our time at AA; we built the airline. Funny how you say you owe us nothing but kept on insisting that we owed you your full seniority from your previous employer.
And I am thankful that you never soiled AA property by stepping foot on it. What did TWA have to offer? Nothing except outdated terminals and hangars with leaking roofs, old decrepit ground equipment, an incompatible fleet which AA mostly disposed of, a moribund STL hub, and employees with an entitlement mentality. If TWA had anything of value why didn't AA keep any of it around? What is it? Where is it? It was the biggest waste of money in US aviation history. Too bad Carty was stupid enough to agree to pay for the TWA retirees' medical.
Coming into this forum from the "outside," I think that question is more appropriate directed at you.
I have yet to see a post from you that does not spew bile and sarcasm. You sound like a very bitter old man.
MCI transplant
Veteran
- Jun 4, 2003
- 5,311
- 584
<_< ------- Hey Ralphy! ( Mr. Moderator) Aren't we getting a little off topic here?
Wake up, the post was directed at this response, "And I am thankful that you never soiled AA property by stepping foot on it."
conniegirl
Member
- Oct 5, 2007
- 51
- 6
I can't speak to mechanic and other related groups from TWA at AA. I CAN speak for the flight attendants.
There's a misconception in several of the posts re: benefits "awarded" to the flight attendants. When we were furloughed as a group in 2003 we were sent out the door with a kick in our behinds. Not one other thing. The WARN letter came, we got notice, and that was that. For those posters who (incorrectly) assume, because it's now Urban Legend among the AA work-groups so it must be true, that we were 'given" retirement, or medical benefits or anything else...that's absolutely false. Our workforce did not get one thing from AA. No furlough pay (which had been the norm until John Ward made certain we didn't get it), no medical/dental, no insurance of any kind, no passes.....Nada, nothing. How many more times do the AA employees have to be told the actual fact. It seems that by simply regurgitating untruths they become fact.
Now, in truth, for those of us senior enough to retire, we receive our retirement funds from TWA which have been managed by the PBGC (Pension Benefit Guarantee Corporation, for those AA folk who are convinced we're draining the coffers of AA just by existing). If we were/are of certain age we get a limited amount of $ for a limited time from AA. In my case, I received a small amount of money for a three year period of time. Those three years have come and gone and I now receive nothing from AA except pass benefits. Which, I might add, I'm grateful for...so you see there is some gratitude out here irrespective of what so many of you would like to believe.
I travel AA a lot. A LOT! I use the passes because I can and because I have them. In regard to other postings here on USAviation, I see good flight attendants at AA and bad ones. I'm under no illusions that TWA cornered the market on good work ethics or friendly staff. I've never been treated rudely by an AA person and perhaps some of that is because I appreciate being able to get on an airplane and it shows. I have, however, seen a gum-chewing flight attendant standing at the boarding door showing marked indifference to those lined up in the jetway. I just came home from a Christmas trip and the only flight attendant who regularly did a walk-through in the cabin was, curiously, a TWA person. The other two 'natives" (How I dislike that terminology) did the service and disappeared for the next three hours.I seldom see anyone say "HI! Welcome Aboard" with a smile, and I must say I saw that a lot in my almost 40 years with TWA. Is that a sign that AA is inferior? Absolutely not! Just a demoralized workforce, which those of us who gave our hearts and souls to our airline can well recognize.
The thing about tough times is this....it weeds the men from the boys. I know that AA people jump defensively on the bandwagon that we must have been lousy because we "went bankrupt and had to be rescued". Actually that's NOT true (we filed for our 3rd bankruptcy on requirement by AA in order to clear ourselves from Icahn , but that's another story)....but even if it were...SO WHAT?
We mananged, with paycuts and hardships to win award after award for our on-time performance and inflight service. And, split all the hairs you want to, the fact remains that we brought some pretty valuable items to the table to AA. Equipment that "doesn't" meld with AA's was mentioned. Hmmmmm....can't tell you how many MD-80's (AA's Super 80's) I've seen in the past three years. 757's that I KNOW I worked. And...all those beautiful destinations that may noy be active now but AA will possibly fly to at sometime. Tell me when AA has ever flown Tel Aviv, or Cairo or Istanbul or Stockholm or so many others. Jump up and down and scream that you could have had those routes yourselves or that you have the rights to them...the fact remains that TWA in it's heyday was a force to be reckoned with Internationally while AA was still flying domestically in the southern states. And we brought some pretty awesome destinations in our dowry.
So, (this is long, I know but I feel it needed to be said)....let's see if in 2009 just a few TWA folk can possibly force themselves to be grateful they have a job (thanks Mark Kirkpatrick)...and a few AA people can stop for a second a try to walk a moment in someone else's moccasins. Try to imagine how YOU'D feel if YOUR airline had been swallowed up by a bunch of strangers, who kicked you when you were down (once again I'm not referring to any group other than the flight attendants), broke a fair amount of promises to you and who consider themselves to be vastly superior because they have the might and they can. I'm sure it's infuriating to have a bunch of "upstarts" marching in and demanding things when you're the victor and a powerful one at that. However, try also to imagine what it feels like to be called the "Clampet's" (the AA flight attendants terminology for us when we were flying HON)...think you might be a bit aggresive and defensive under those circumstances? Water under the bridge, you say? That sort of stuff has been flying back and forth for the past eight years and it's just about time to put it all to rest.
So, in closing......maybe we (retired, waiting for recall, working) can try to bury just a bit of the hatchet at this point.
Happy New Years everyone, and let's see if we can make 2009 a great one.
ConnieGirl
There's a misconception in several of the posts re: benefits "awarded" to the flight attendants. When we were furloughed as a group in 2003 we were sent out the door with a kick in our behinds. Not one other thing. The WARN letter came, we got notice, and that was that. For those posters who (incorrectly) assume, because it's now Urban Legend among the AA work-groups so it must be true, that we were 'given" retirement, or medical benefits or anything else...that's absolutely false. Our workforce did not get one thing from AA. No furlough pay (which had been the norm until John Ward made certain we didn't get it), no medical/dental, no insurance of any kind, no passes.....Nada, nothing. How many more times do the AA employees have to be told the actual fact. It seems that by simply regurgitating untruths they become fact.
Now, in truth, for those of us senior enough to retire, we receive our retirement funds from TWA which have been managed by the PBGC (Pension Benefit Guarantee Corporation, for those AA folk who are convinced we're draining the coffers of AA just by existing). If we were/are of certain age we get a limited amount of $ for a limited time from AA. In my case, I received a small amount of money for a three year period of time. Those three years have come and gone and I now receive nothing from AA except pass benefits. Which, I might add, I'm grateful for...so you see there is some gratitude out here irrespective of what so many of you would like to believe.
I travel AA a lot. A LOT! I use the passes because I can and because I have them. In regard to other postings here on USAviation, I see good flight attendants at AA and bad ones. I'm under no illusions that TWA cornered the market on good work ethics or friendly staff. I've never been treated rudely by an AA person and perhaps some of that is because I appreciate being able to get on an airplane and it shows. I have, however, seen a gum-chewing flight attendant standing at the boarding door showing marked indifference to those lined up in the jetway. I just came home from a Christmas trip and the only flight attendant who regularly did a walk-through in the cabin was, curiously, a TWA person. The other two 'natives" (How I dislike that terminology) did the service and disappeared for the next three hours.I seldom see anyone say "HI! Welcome Aboard" with a smile, and I must say I saw that a lot in my almost 40 years with TWA. Is that a sign that AA is inferior? Absolutely not! Just a demoralized workforce, which those of us who gave our hearts and souls to our airline can well recognize.
The thing about tough times is this....it weeds the men from the boys. I know that AA people jump defensively on the bandwagon that we must have been lousy because we "went bankrupt and had to be rescued". Actually that's NOT true (we filed for our 3rd bankruptcy on requirement by AA in order to clear ourselves from Icahn , but that's another story)....but even if it were...SO WHAT?
We mananged, with paycuts and hardships to win award after award for our on-time performance and inflight service. And, split all the hairs you want to, the fact remains that we brought some pretty valuable items to the table to AA. Equipment that "doesn't" meld with AA's was mentioned. Hmmmmm....can't tell you how many MD-80's (AA's Super 80's) I've seen in the past three years. 757's that I KNOW I worked. And...all those beautiful destinations that may noy be active now but AA will possibly fly to at sometime. Tell me when AA has ever flown Tel Aviv, or Cairo or Istanbul or Stockholm or so many others. Jump up and down and scream that you could have had those routes yourselves or that you have the rights to them...the fact remains that TWA in it's heyday was a force to be reckoned with Internationally while AA was still flying domestically in the southern states. And we brought some pretty awesome destinations in our dowry.
So, (this is long, I know but I feel it needed to be said)....let's see if in 2009 just a few TWA folk can possibly force themselves to be grateful they have a job (thanks Mark Kirkpatrick)...and a few AA people can stop for a second a try to walk a moment in someone else's moccasins. Try to imagine how YOU'D feel if YOUR airline had been swallowed up by a bunch of strangers, who kicked you when you were down (once again I'm not referring to any group other than the flight attendants), broke a fair amount of promises to you and who consider themselves to be vastly superior because they have the might and they can. I'm sure it's infuriating to have a bunch of "upstarts" marching in and demanding things when you're the victor and a powerful one at that. However, try also to imagine what it feels like to be called the "Clampet's" (the AA flight attendants terminology for us when we were flying HON)...think you might be a bit aggresive and defensive under those circumstances? Water under the bridge, you say? That sort of stuff has been flying back and forth for the past eight years and it's just about time to put it all to rest.
So, in closing......maybe we (retired, waiting for recall, working) can try to bury just a bit of the hatchet at this point.
Happy New Years everyone, and let's see if we can make 2009 a great one.
ConnieGirl
MCI transplant
Veteran
- Jun 4, 2003
- 5,311
- 584
<_< ------- Happy New Year Conniegirl! Keep your chin up!!!
The latest news...
From someone in the know...
The recalled former TWA F/A's are recognized across the organization for their professionalism and superior customer service skills, period.
I've heard it numerous times from top management to base managers to APFA leadership to line flight attendants. Those of you who have been recalled have created a very positive impression of our group, and that probably wasn't expected, given the welcome we received.
From the LGA base page ...all TWA crew as I understand it...
I flew first class on this flight, and I was most impressed with the crew. They were experienced, super nice and ultra-professional. This applied not just to first class but for everyone on the flight that I saw working. I was most impressed with xxxxx, who explained to me that he was a former TWA agent (f/a) of 28 years who had been furloughed but was called back recently to work for AA. He said a number of the crew were at least as veteran as he is. My advice as a frequent flyer is to find more of these experienced personnel who know what they are doing and worked in a previous era when there was more focus on customer service. These people really get it and can help AA regain some of the luster that is has lost in recent years. A special kudos to XXX--he was especially terrific on an all-around great flight.
From someone in the know...
The recalled former TWA F/A's are recognized across the organization for their professionalism and superior customer service skills, period.
I've heard it numerous times from top management to base managers to APFA leadership to line flight attendants. Those of you who have been recalled have created a very positive impression of our group, and that probably wasn't expected, given the welcome we received.
From the LGA base page ...all TWA crew as I understand it...
I flew first class on this flight, and I was most impressed with the crew. They were experienced, super nice and ultra-professional. This applied not just to first class but for everyone on the flight that I saw working. I was most impressed with xxxxx, who explained to me that he was a former TWA agent (f/a) of 28 years who had been furloughed but was called back recently to work for AA. He said a number of the crew were at least as veteran as he is. My advice as a frequent flyer is to find more of these experienced personnel who know what they are doing and worked in a previous era when there was more focus on customer service. These people really get it and can help AA regain some of the luster that is has lost in recent years. A special kudos to XXX--he was especially terrific on an all-around great flight.
Not spewing hate, just facts.
Back in TWA's hey day in the 1960s and 1970s they WERE a great airline; they flew to all those overseas destinations you alluded to. Europe was not open skies then like it is now or has been since 2000. You mentioned places like TLV and CAI; AA has shown absolutely no desire to fly it's red, white, and blue striped planes with the word AMERICAN above those stripes into that wonderfully peaceful part of the world. But we did fly to ARN (Stockholm) in the early 1990s. If those routes were so good for TWA then why did they drop them? Latin America is AA's gold mine and has carried this airline ever since they got the routes from EAL. TWA's "beauty", as well as it's finances, began to fade in the 1980s, she was no longer the "blonde bombshell" she once was and has gone down hill ever since. In 2001 she died of old age and was financially destitute; but somehow she thinks she is still that hot young beauty of her better days. TWA never bothered to upgrade it's ground facilities and, with the exception of it's ill fated attempt in ATL, never did any meaningful expansion on its own. In summary, TWA failed in keeping up with the times.
You stated that TWA F/A's got nothing from AA. An earlier post in this thread from an AA F/A's states that he or she saw the TWA F/A seniority list and said that over 60% had over 26 years seniority. Given that number,it would be safe to say that most of them would have qualified for AA retiree medical and passes if they had just simply retired as you said that they would do anyway. However, many didn't retire because they wanted to come back to AA to work for the highest legacy compensation in order to make up for the years of poor earnings at TWA.
I have flown many flights on AA and one on TWA llc. The nAAtive F/As I have encountered have all been very professional but I am sure there are some that are not so good. On my TWA llc flight, the F/As were also very professional, not out of this world as many here suggest, but very good. And I'm sure they also have some that are not that good.
Thousands of letters like this have been written by passengers praising nAAtive F/As.
Back in the 90's and early 2000's my airlines of choice were AA and US. I hadn't yet made PLT with AA but flew a good bit on them for my job. However, I pretty much swore off them after some negative experiences in the early 2000's, one of the more notable being my trip on what turned out to be a former TWA 757 with a former TWA crew. I guess this was before they were laid off.
I had to chuckle when Conniegirl remarked how she seldom sees a smile upon boarding an AA plane. Well, I can still remember the gum-chewing, vacant-eyed look I got from the flight attendant at the door of that former TWA 757. Quite frankly, she looked like a cow chewing its cud. I was in First Class, first row, and heard, for three hours, DFW-West Coast, her talk LOUDLY about how she has 33 years, how AA stinks, blah, blah, blah, in the galley area. The service from this woman was pretty much as you would expect it to be based on her behavior and comportment. Even though this was an AA flight, she announced, "Welcome aboard TWA..." The other flight attendant in First Class was almost as bad. I deplaned vowing not to fly AA again.
I returned to AA several years later, and have been treated well by both AA flight attendants, and I assume, TWA flight attendants, except could someone please tell the former TWA flight attendant who stood in the aisle on one of my last flights, complaining to the passenger seated in front of me how badly she has been treated by AA that the passengers don't need to be involved in her battles? She was wearing some TWA pin, evidently, and he asked about it. After about 10 minutes of her diatribe about the evil AA, the evil union and the evil AA flight attendants, I am sure he was sorry he asked her about that pin.
I had to chuckle when Conniegirl remarked how she seldom sees a smile upon boarding an AA plane. Well, I can still remember the gum-chewing, vacant-eyed look I got from the flight attendant at the door of that former TWA 757. Quite frankly, she looked like a cow chewing its cud. I was in First Class, first row, and heard, for three hours, DFW-West Coast, her talk LOUDLY about how she has 33 years, how AA stinks, blah, blah, blah, in the galley area. The service from this woman was pretty much as you would expect it to be based on her behavior and comportment. Even though this was an AA flight, she announced, "Welcome aboard TWA..." The other flight attendant in First Class was almost as bad. I deplaned vowing not to fly AA again.
I returned to AA several years later, and have been treated well by both AA flight attendants, and I assume, TWA flight attendants, except could someone please tell the former TWA flight attendant who stood in the aisle on one of my last flights, complaining to the passenger seated in front of me how badly she has been treated by AA that the passengers don't need to be involved in her battles? She was wearing some TWA pin, evidently, and he asked about it. After about 10 minutes of her diatribe about the evil AA, the evil union and the evil AA flight attendants, I am sure he was sorry he asked her about that pin.
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