401K

[cooper43]

The point of my responses was that successful people shouldn't be frowned upon for what they have achieved. Everyone has their opportunities in life. Some take comfort in living under suppression (in their head) and blame others for their short comings. Would you rather have the government regulate how much you are to earn? What to do? When to do it?

Stalin would be so proud! LOL

Just for the sake of debating:
most people do not want government to tell us what to do but we also want a fair chance. The playing field is not even. I certainly do not beleive that we should all have the same amount of riches. However our government is elected to pass legislation to protect us from predators. What I mean by predators are those who have so much money they control all of the capital and us it in order to gain more capital. They wield so much power they influence our legislators who in turn pass legislation that puts more money in their pocket. I believe until we take our government back from big business, the middle class will continue to shrink. We are becoming a country of haves and have nots. There are more and more people falling into poverty. Their pensions are gone (when they were promised to them and they new nothing about 401k's) thier healthcare is gone (something they have been able to count on from thier employer for decades), and thier wages are shrinking instead of keeping up with inflation. So I believe it is just insulting to say to these people "everyone has their opportunities in life." That is dismissing the suffering that many people in our nation are feeling. With the world the way it is today, any of us could end up falling into a situation that we cant ajust to, and if you do think it will happen to you, watch out.

 

[cooper43]

You cannot expect to the government to fix anything. They have a very poor track record. People cry when times are good for less government intervention. When times are bad, people cry for more. You cant have your cake and eat it too.

I would rather err on the side of too much safety (in your terms "government") in good times and in bad. We need to be able to depend on a strong middle class. If we continue to pull the rug out from under ordinary people (like corporate america is doing) and the top keep getting richer and richer then we will fall as a nation.

 

[dapoes]

Just for the sake of debating:
most people do not want government to tell us what to do but we also want a fair chance. The playing field is not even. I certainly do not beleive that we should all have the same amount of riches. However our government is elected to pass legislation to protect us from predators. What I mean by predators are those who have so much money they control all of the capital and us it in order to gain more capital. They wield so much power they influence our legislators who in turn pass legislation that puts more money in their pocket. I believe until we take our government back from big business, the middle class will continue to shrink. We are becoming a country of haves and have nots. There are more and more people falling into poverty. Their pensions are gone (when they were promised to them and they new nothing about 401k's) thier healthcare is gone (something they have been able to count on from thier employer for decades), and thier wages are shrinking instead of keeping up with inflation. So I believe it is just insulting to say to these people "everyone has their opportunities in life." That is dismissing the suffering that many people in our nation are feeling. With the world the way it is today, any of us could end up falling into a situation that we cant ajust to, and if you do think it will happen to you, watch out.

Yes I agree that there are people that are suffering, and there are problems that need fixing. This country has never been and will never be utopia.

But that's not what the subject of this thread either. The premise of this topic was that high level corporate officers shouldn't make a certain salary, etc. Those that chose to excel, did so by the sweat off their brows and sacrifice. Everyone can chose the same as well.

There are stories everyday of people achieving the impossible, overcoming odds etc, whether its financial or personal etc. But they did so by their own determination.

 

[dapoes]

I would rather err on the side of too much safety (in your terms "government") in good times and in bad. We need to be able to depend on a strong middle class. If we continue to pull the rug out from under ordinary people (like corporate america is doing) and the top keep getting richer and richer then we will fall as a nation.

Again the government has never had a proven track record to fix anything. Ever.

There was federal oversight (SEC) that was to supposed to guard against this current credit crisis we are in. Their sole purpose was to prevent what had happen in this current credit markets. One of the largest institutions (Bear Stearns) collapsed under the nose SEC for the poor business practices. Alarms should have gone off, but didn't.

Remember Hurricane Katrina and FEMA?

FDR and Social Security, look what happen with that.

Medicaid programs...what a joke

FDA approving harmful drugs onto market.

Social Services...and yet still we have problems with homelessness, poverty, etc

Name one government sponsored program that has actually solved a widespread problem for what they were intended for.

 

[2BlacknBlue]

"Interesting post...

For once you and I agree, as I would rather be poor & happy, as opposed to rich but missing out on watching my son grow up.

Back on topic:

In the case of NW & DL, I think most of the anger towards these CEO's isn't so much that they're getting rich, but rather they're still taking while the rest of us haven't got back what's been lost.

I don't expect to make 100's of K yearly either. What I do expect is to be spared the "shared sacrifices" BS, while a quick trip to the SEC website still shows that to be a one way street."


Amen!

 

[Gilding the Lily]

http://www.1st-retirement.com/the-401-k-ho...retirement.html

Nonsense! The article is nearly worthless. It claims the following: "Why is this so tough on the employee? The 401(k) plans do not offer individual stocks only mutual funds. What a scam!"

Well then, if you are so concerned about not owning individual stocks, there is nothing holding you back from purchasing those individual stocks. You can also decide to stop investing in a 401(k) and invest in other opportunities (this could be even more fruitful if company does not match).

I don't think anyone here really needs a review of what can happen to retirement savings if they are wrapped up solely in individual stocks.

 

[FLYHAPPY]

Kev I can answer that question for you, having nearly twenty years at Delta.
Yes. Delta has talked of the "Delta family" for years, and it was obvious that below the surface was something else. Among many, not myself alone, this was and is the feeling. The new "Delta family" , pats people on the back, while the company's hand is in your pocket.



is that you Uni? good to see you are still leading the victim parade

 

[cooper43]

Again the government has never had a proven track record to fix anything. Ever.

There was federal oversight (SEC) that was to supposed to guard against this current credit crisis we are in. Their sole purpose was to prevent what had happen in this current credit markets. One of the largest institutions (Bear Stearns) collapsed under the nose SEC for the poor business practices. Alarms should have gone off, but didn't.

Remember Hurricane Katrina and FEMA?

FDR and Social Security, look what happen with that.

Medicaid programs...what a joke

FDA approving harmful drugs onto market.

Social Services...and yet still we have problems with homelessness, poverty, etc

Name one government sponsored program that has actually solved a widespread problem for what they were intended for.

Dapoes

It was not government that failed the people of Katrina, it was an administration that does not connect to the suffering of the average person. It was and is a complete failure for GW to move FEMA under Homeland Security. Also GW chose to put his good ole boy's into positions that they were not qualified to hold (Brownie). As for Social Security, it can be fixed when politics stays out of it. SS is a good system with medicade and medicare, there are lots of people who depend on that for thier lives. My parents are from a different generation. They worked hard all thier lives and and they expected a pension which was not delivered. Social Security is all they have, it is a good program that is their for all of us if our plan A and B dont materialize. In addition you mentioned the drug industry, this is another case of needing government to protect us from unscrupulous companies that only care about profits not the statistical few that thier products harm or kill. I know that government can be obstructive and costly, but I think we have been traveling down a road of deregulation for the past 8 years that is leading us to destruction. Corporate america does not care about us or anything but making a profit. Anyway, I could go on and on I love thinking about and talking about politics and what kind of country I want to live in. Bottom line we either have to put our trust in government or corporations and it is a gamble either way.

 

[dapoes]

Dapoes

It was not government that failed the people of Katrina, it was an administration that does not connect to the suffering of the average person. It was and is a complete failure for GW to move FEMA under Homeland Security. Also GW chose to put his good ole boy's into positions that they were not qualified to hold (Brownie). As for Social Security, it can be fixed when politics stays out of it. SS is a good system with medicade and medicare, there are lots of people who depend on that for thier lives. My parents are from a different generation. They worked hard all thier lives and and they expected a pension which was not delivered. Social Security is all they have, it is a good program that is their for all of us if our plan A and B dont materialize. In addition you mentioned the drug industry, this is another case of needing government to protect us from unscrupulous companies that only care about profits not the statistical few that thier products harm or kill. I know that government can be obstructive and costly, but I think we have been traveling down a road of deregulation for the past 8 years that is leading us to destruction. Corporate america does not care about us or anything but making a profit. Anyway, I could go on and on I love thinking about and talking about politics and what kind of country I want to live in. Bottom line we either have to put our trust in government or corporations and it is a gamble either way.

Government didn't fail the people of Katrina??? Surely you jest. You do know F and M in FEMA stands for right? F= FEDERAL GOVERNMENT M= MANAGEMENT.
SS will never be fixed, and its in a dismal state. If FDR where alive today to see what happen to the program he spearheaded, he would be disgusted.
FDA fails miserably and repeatedly in approving drugs that either should or should not be on the market.
Putting your trust in anything outside of your control or influence is fool hardy. You have to take care of yourself and not think that someone else is going to take care of you.

One of the traits of successful people is they dont wait for others to make things happen, they make it happen for themselves.

 

[cooper43]

Government didn't fail the people of Katrina??? Surely you jest. You do know F and M in FEMA stands for right? F= FEDERAL GOVERNMENT M= MANAGEMENT.
SS will never be fixed, and its in a dismal state. If FDR where alive today to see what happen to the program he spearheaded, he would be disgusted.
FDA fails miserably and repeatedly in approving drugs that either should or should not be on the market.
Putting your trust in anything outside of your control or influence is fool hardy. You have to take care of yourself and not think that someone else is going to take care of you.

One of the traits of successful people is they dont wait for others to make things happen, they make it happen for themselves.

I enjoy being able to have theoretical discusions with others about how we each see the world. We of course do not invision the same kind of world. Your view of the world seems very harsh and non forgiving. Sort of "survival of the fitest" , Of course I am a bleeding heart liberal and not ashamed of it. I believe that we should be striving to lift up and educate those that do not have the same advantages as those at the top. Yes I believe that anyone can be successful (what is the definition of success?) if they try hard enough. The issue is that some have to start out with a lot less to work with than others. I am one of those liberals who believe those who have much are expected to give back. It shouldnt matter whether ones wealth was inherited or earned by thier own hard work, being a good citizen means caring for those less fortunate. We live in the wealthiest nation in the world and there should not be anyone here who lives in poverty (unless they choose to). We should provide the tools to anyone who wants to earn an education. Our greatest charge should be helping bring people to thier full potiential.

 

[MMB]

Looks like my post was too long?
Definitely too long to retype.
Cliff's Notes:
Been there, done that.
For anyone who doesn’t like their lot in life, there are non-government avenues for self improvement, that work.
90% of the generational poverty we see is BECAUSE of programs like welfare.
Even with that, people in poverty here live better than the average middle class in many of the more ‘enlightened’ countries, and infinitely better than most people in other countries.

 

[dapoes]

I enjoy being able to have theoretical discusions with others about how we each see the world. We of course do not invision the same kind of world. Your view of the world seems very harsh and non forgiving. Sort of "survival of the fitest" , Of course I am a bleeding heart liberal and not ashamed of it. I believe that we should be striving to lift up and educate those that do not have the same advantages as those at the top. Yes I believe that anyone can be successful (what is the definition of success?) if they try hard enough. The issue is that some have to start out with a lot less to work with than others. I am one of those liberals who believe those who have much are expected to give back. It shouldnt matter whether ones wealth was inherited or earned by thier own hard work, being a good citizen means caring for those less fortunate. We live in the wealthiest nation in the world and there should not be anyone here who lives in poverty (unless they choose to). We should provide the tools to anyone who wants to earn an education. Our greatest charge should be helping bring people to thier full potiential.

Being in poverty in the USA pales in comparison to what other nations suffer.