401K

[getitgoin]

Don't act so suprised; you know exactly what I'm talking about.

To repeat:

People at your own carrier were fighting for a better tomorrow for themselves. Rather than appreciate the time and energy they were putting into "just doing it" (or at the very least respectfully disagreeing and leaving it alone),you derided them, and did such juvenile things as post Successories posters to taunt them.

Classless and hypocritical. Period.

Since you're mgmt. at DL, maybe you can tell us NW'ers; is this the type of mentality we can expect from all of you guys?

Kev I can answer that question for you, having nearly twenty years at Delta.
Yes. Delta has talked of the "Delta family" for years, and it was obvious that below the surface was something else. Among many, not myself alone, this was and is the feeling. The new "Delta family" , pats people on the back, while the company's hand is in your pocket.

 

[getitgoin]

The small mindedness come from those who think they are under someones thumb and do nothing about it. If you want to achieve greatness, you have the opportunity as the next person does.

Like the famous Nike slogan says "Just Do It"

You have to ask yourself "Can you do it?" or you going to sit by and complain (in envy) for those that have?

Funny that you should mention Nike, since they were the recent subject of an investigative report about labor exploitation in Indonesia.

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseacti...eoID=1865767146

 

[getitgoin]

Everyone get your pitch fork and get the biggest one of all, why go after small potatoes, chase after Bill Gates, since it appears that making money is against your beliefs

At best a narrowminded view. We should have multi-billionaires while families can't afford health insurance? Is that what you're saying? I suppose you're a proponent of Nike's labor practices too.

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseacti...eoID=1865767146

 

[getitgoin]

We live in a world of the "have" and "have not's". Those who "have not" are always jealous of those who "have".

Its funny how these reports are geared to incite those who "have not" and compare the "Average Joe" against senior management, CEO's. CFO's etc. The "Average Joe" doesn't have the education nor skill set to be able to land a CEO position. Hence that's why he's an "Average Joe".

But the "Average Joe" could be proactive and go to college or business school, start at a low level job, earn your dues, put your self out there to achieve more, hustle and work your way up the ladder, etc. And after the 20-30+ years you finally are recognized for your efforts and knowledge and for what? To be paid the the same as the "Average Joe"?

Nobody handed to them on a silver platter. Stop whining about what other people have/achieved and go get a piece of yours.

Its free for the taking.

Theft is theft, no matter whether it's white collar theft condoned by government, or other forms. You can package a turd up in a gift bag, but it's still a turd.

 

[dapoes]

Don't act so suprised; you know exactly what I'm talking about.

To repeat:

People at your own carrier were fighting for a better tomorrow for themselves. Rather than appreciate the time and energy they were putting into "just doing it" (or at the very least respectfully disagreeing and leaving it alone),you derided them, and did such juvenile things as post Successories posters to taunt them.

Classless and hypocritical. Period.

Since you're mgmt. at DL, maybe you can tell us NW'ers; is this the type of mentality we can expect from all of you guys?

I knew your going to spin this into an AFA thing. I never "derided" any coworkers at DAL. To my understanding that successories poster is of AFA representatives/organizers NOT DAL employees. My problem with AFA is the lies that come from them in order to invoke fear. They do nothing but instigate and reinforce the "little man" ideal and drive separation between workers and management. They want you to feel like you are under managements thumb, that's how they validate their worth.

Its funny how people think I am management (Im A FA) because I choose to think/say freely for what I believe/know to be true. Believe what you wish. I wholeheartedly welcome NW'ers, I think we are going to be great together!

The point of my responses was that successful people shouldn't be frowned upon for what they have achieved. Everyone has their opportunities in life. Some take comfort in living under suppression (in their head) and blame others for their short comings. Would you rather have the government regulate how much you are to earn? What to do? When to do it?

Stalin would be so proud! LOL

 

[dapoes]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Jesus H. Christ man,

I HOPE the ***K you are NOT trying to sell the rest of us a "bill of goods", that says that there is (now) NO Racism/Age discrimination/Ethnic discrimination.......as it pertains to (as an example of)getting that very special Job, or Great Apartment/Condo rental !

Tell it Sen Obama. Im sure thats why he has acheived so much at such a young age.

 

[dapoes]

At best a narrowminded view. We should have multi-billionaires while families can't afford health insurance? Is that what you're saying? I suppose you're a proponent of Nike's labor practices too.

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseacti...eoID=1865767146

So if you started your own business, invention a widget and made your wealth because of it, you would give it all away, because of economic situations that you have no control of? Talk about being narrow minded...

 

[Kev3188]

I knew your going to spin this into an AFA thing. I never "derided" any coworkers at DAL. To my understanding that successories poster is of AFA representatives/organizers NOT DAL employees. My problem with AFA is the lies that come from them in order to invoke fear. They do nothing but instigate and reinforce the "little man" ideal and drive separation between workers and management. They want you to feel like you are under managements thumb, that's how they validate their worth.

I didn't ask your opinion of the AFA, and I'm not "spinning" anything.

You still haven't answered my question. I didn't think I'd have to water it down into simpler terms, but here we are.

Round 3:

Please explain how you rationalize exhorting people to make their own way in life/better themselves (which I agree with, by the way), while at the same time deriding those that chose unionization at DL to do so.

Is this a case of the-sky's-the-limit-just-as-long-as-it's-something-I-agree-with?

Its funny how people think I am management (Im A FA) because I choose to think/say freely for what I believe/know to be true. Believe what you wish. I wholeheartedly welcome NW'ers, I think we are going to be great together!

This is the first time that I've seen where you haven't denied being mgmt. So you're an F/A; good for you.

The point of my responses was that successful people shouldn't be frowned upon for what they have achieved.

No they shouldn't except when their prosperity comes at the expense of others.

Everyone has their opportunities in life. Some take comfort in living under suppression (in their head) and blame others for their short comings. Would you rather have the government regulate how much you are to earn? What to do? When to do it?

This is a joke, right?

Stalin would be so proud! LOL

An ad hominem attack! Hurray! Your posts just wouldn't be the same without 'em....

 

[dapoes]

I didn't ask your opinion of the AFA, and I'm not "spinning" anything.

You still haven't answered my question. I didn't think I'd have to water it down into simpler terms, but here we are.

Round 3:

Please explain how you rationalize exhorting people to make their own way in life/better themselves (which I agree with, by the way), while at the same time deriding those that chose unionization at DL to do so.

Is this a case of the-sky's-the-limit-just-as-long-as-it's-something-I-agree-with?

Again I derided no one at DAL. The issues I have is with the AFA leaders trying to tell me things I know not to be true. Then deriding me for saying otherwise.

 

[Ch. 12]

The one thing that nobody seems to mention (since the article doesn't spell it out and is meant to infuriate...not show facts)...

we should all take solace that these "salaries" are not really "salaries" at all but are rather made up nearly entirely of stock options/grants that were handed out when the stock was nearly $25. So...knowing that the stock is now a mere fraction of that, they have lost most of these 'eggs'. The other thing that people don't seem to get is that stock OPTIONS are the option to buy at a certain price...this isn't money in their wallet and seeing how far the prices have plunged, nobody will be exercising those options.

Is it still alot to make? Hell yeah. Is it $11 Million? not even close. Should they make the same amount as me? Nope. I have no interest in making work my life and schmoozing every weeknight and throughout the weekend not to mention working 20 hours a day and not paying any attention to my family. For that i will sacrafice my hundreds of thousands.

There is still a huge issue with executive compensation in this country but this industry is FAR below all other industries in what gets paid to executives. Understanding what the numbers really stem from rather than using it as an excuse to rant about what you either don't know or just claim injustice b/c we should all be paid equivalently (as in Communism) is valuable. But some just like to complain rather than DO anything...

 

[Kev3188]

Again I derided no one at DAL.

Wrong.

You have derided everyone of your co-workers that chose to vote union as a path to a brighter tomorrow.

You may too blinded by your hubris to see it, but trust me that's how it looks from the sidelines.

Let me ask you this, and then we'll be done:

Let's say on your next turn one of your fellow F/A's and you get in an earnest discussion about how to make things better for the both of you (or all of you, for that matter). For the sake of discussion, assume both of you want to stay at DL. Your co-worker earnestly believes that unionizing is way to move forward, and would help everyone at the widget get their time in the sun. What will you say? What would your solution(s) be? Please be specific.

 

[Kev3188]

Interesting post...

For once you and I agree, as I would rather be poor & happy, as opposed to rich but missing out on watching my son grow up.

Back on topic:

In the case of NW & DL, I think most of the anger towards these CEO's isn't so much that they're getting rich, but rather they're still taking while the rest of us haven't got back what's been lost.

I don't expect to make 100's of K yearly either. What I do expect is to be spared the "shared sacrifices" BS, while a quick trip to the SEC website still shows that to be a one way street.

 

[cooper43]

We live in a world of the "have" and "have not's". Those who "have not" are always jealous of those who "have".

Its funny how these reports are geared to incite those who "have not" and compare the "Average Joe" against senior management, CEO's. CFO's etc. The "Average Joe" doesn't have the education nor skill set to be able to land a CEO position. Hence that's why he's an "Average Joe".

But the "Average Joe" could be proactive and go to college or business school, start at a low level job, earn your dues, put your self out there to achieve more, hustle and work your way up the ladder, etc. And after the 20-30+ years you finally are recognized for your efforts and knowledge and for what? To be paid the the same as the "Average Joe"?

Nobody handed to them on a silver platter. Stop whining about what other people have/achieved and go get a piece of yours.

Its free for the taking.

I agree that one can improve thier position by obtaining more education or training (however who can pay for education now), but those at the very top (CEO's of the corporations that were spoke of in the above article) make it hard for new comers in thier circle. Those positions are very hard to come by. No one that I know has a problem with those at the top making considerably more than the average joe. The problem is that they make an obscene amount of money and for poor performance much of the time. If thier leadership is not doing the job they get a golden parachute and then go to another company with outrageous signing bonuses, plus a huge salary, plus stock options etc.. All the while their employees are working harder, longer, with less benefits, and no retirement to speak of, for less money. And possibly face losing thier job to someone over seas who is willing to do it for penneis. This is why our economy is falling apart. Our government has been high jacked by corporate America and the middle class is beening erroded. There will not be a healthy economy until our government helps bring back the middle class.

 

[dapoes]

Wrong.

You have derided everyone of your co-workers that chose to vote union as a path to a brighter tomorrow.

You may too blinded by your hubris to see it, but trust me that's how it looks from the sidelines.

Let me ask you this, and then we'll be done:

Let's say on your next turn one of your fellow F/A's and you get in an earnest discussion about how to make things better for the both of you (or all of you, for that matter). For the sake of discussion, assume both of you want to stay at DL. Your co-worker earnestly believes that unionizing is way to move forward, and would help everyone at the widget get their time in the sun. What will you say? What would your solution(s) be? Please be specific.

I think you are holding this too close to your chest (taking it too personal). I had been asked plenty of times from co-workers, one of my good friends was pro AFA. We never really got it in a heated debate over either.

I have admitted that there may have been compelling reasons for AFA/unionization. My main problem with the way AFA presented themselves was their fire and brimstone (trash talk) antics. Even some of my pro-afa friends thought it was a bit over the top and unnecessary. Instead of promoting the benefits they chose to spit on very people they were looking for support.

You probably didn't see it from your vantage point, but it got to be so bad that even people that where considering voting yes, chose not to. Why? Because rather then promote the benefit, they chose to hound, confront, stalk, talk all sorts of garbage that was known not to be true. Repeatedly.

If they would have stayed on topic then they most likely would have won. I think they did more damage to themselves then helping.

 

[dapoes]

I agree that one can improve thier position by obtaining more education or training (however who can pay for education now), but those at the very top (CEO's of the corporations that were spoke of in the above article) make it hard for new comers in thier circle. Those positions are very hard to come by. No one that I know has a problem with those at the top making considerably more than the average joe. The problem is that they make an obscene amount of money and for poor performance much of the time. If thier leadership is not doing the job they get a golden parachute and then go to another company with outrageous signing bonuses, plus a huge salary, plus stock options etc.. All the while their employees are working harder, longer, with less benefits, and no retirement to speak of, for less money. And possibly face losing thier job to someone over seas who is willing to do it for penneis. This is why our economy is falling apart. Our government has been high jacked by corporate America and the middle class is beening erroded. There will not be a healthy economy until our government helps bring back the middle class.

You cannot expect to the government to fix anything. They have a very poor track record. People cry when times are good for less government intervention. When times are bad, people cry for more. You cant have your cake and eat it too.