6,000 Twu Members Lost Jobs?

[Thomas Paine]

A recent article about the UAW talks could shine the light on the real reason why the TWU agreed to such massive cuts. Cuts that put us below carriers that went bankrupt.

In the UAW deal it appears the the Unions demands were for more unionization at suppliers. Its no secret that the UAW has been losing numbers at the big three as far as members. Their main objective appears to have been to keep the wages of those who remain at a fair level. Even if it means less of them.

The IAM apparently represents some third party maint providers so the loss of workers at UAL and USAIR could be partially made up by an increase in members there.


The TWU did not have this back up so they simply set out to keep the work in house at any cost. Even at the cost of bringing all workers down to outsource rates.

Our outsource language is even weaker than thiers.

Its all about numbers.

God how I hate business unionism.

What ever happened to fighting for decent contracts?

Todays unions appear to be using their members as products in a bidding war where they compete not through performance for thier members, who are discouraged from changing unions through inter-union agreements so are therefore irrelivent, but by using thier members to undercut each other. They have put their members in a race to the bottom where the winning union will be the one who gave the airline costs low enough to put the other airline out of business.

This policy may be considered acceptable by unaccountable leaders but should it be acceptable to union members?

 

[Superside]

Thomas Paine ,
Now that was thought povoking.
Thanks.
Who Reps the workers at Eagle? TWU, and what kind of wages and bennies do they get?.... I wonder?! <_<

 

[jake]

Thomas Payne,
You talk about playing union member against union member. I ask this, if AMFA represents mechanics at NWA, the PFAA represents the flight attendants and lets say the AGW gets the ground workers, and they are all represented and operated by McCormick and Seham, who then, using the AMFA “pie chartâ€￾ theory decides who gets what? If McCormick decides that the flight attendants are worth more money, does that lesson the mechanics and ground workers take? Or do you think McCormick will automatically put mechanics at the top of the food chain and sell the others down the river?

 

[Thomas Paine]

Thomas Payne,
You talk about playing union member against union member. I ask this, if AMFA represents mechanics at NWA, the PFAA represents the flight attendants and lets say the AGW gets the ground workers, and they are all represented and operated by McCormick and Seham, who then, using the AMFA “pie chartâ€￾ theory decides who gets what? If McCormick decides that the flight attendants are worth more money, does that lesson the mechanics and ground workers take? Or do you think McCormick will automatically put mechanics at the top of the food chain and sell the others down the river?

How badly could the McCormick group do compared to what the AFL-CIO affiliated groups have done? Exactly how did the TWU and IAM use their affiliation to our advantage? We just got done doing a negative leapfrog.

As I understand it these unions will be independant, the IAM does not tell the TWU what to do right? The pie chart theory is not a creation of AMFA, its the creation of the TWU. Thats why Jim Little told members in NY not to ever vote down a TA "because they will never make the pie bigger, just move things around".

The fact of the matter is for mechanics, fleet service and other workers, what competitors pay their workers doing the same job has more of an impact than what union they belong to, with the exception of course being when AMFA negotiated the last NWA contract, which set a new standard for mechanics wages. This standard was reset, lower, by the TWU.

 

[jake]

ThomasPayne,
Even though you didn’t answer the question I asked, I’ll oblige yours anyway. The AFL-CIO past, present and future has been involved in bettering the lives of working men an women for many years, just click over to their website and check the latest actions. That being said, you claim that the gutting of the contracts at United and AA are the fault of AFL affiliated Unions. These arguments have been all over these boards and you refuse to open you tunneled vision and recognize the differences between what happened at each airline, so I will recap them for you. AMFA claims they had NO influence at United with regard to turning down the pre-bankruptcy concession agreement that the IAM had reached with the company (we all KNOW that’s bull). That agreement provided to keep their scope clause in tact, minimal lay-offs and a 7% pay reduction. With AMFA’s help, United ended up in bankruptcy and was then in need of even more cash and who was going to pay? The employees! They ended up with language in their agreement that allowed, “unlimited outsourcing of all heavy maintenance and 20% of all other maintenance annuallyâ€, a 13% pay cut, higher insurance premiums and screwed up work rules. Then, United laid-off thousands of mechanics. Now that’s a positive effect, how do think that 5000 likes the unemployment line? At NWA, AMFA claims they installed a “cap†for outsourcing (up to 38% with NO right to grieve). If that’s the case wouldn’t you think that NWA has exceeded it by now? AMFA say’s “NOâ€!! But they have managed to lay-off more than 4500 with more to come. Now NWA is asking for concessions, 173 million dollars worth! Um, question (not that you’ll answer) but if AMFA’s position is clearly “NO CONCESSIONSâ€, as they state, why then hire Seneca to review if they are needed? Is it because they have changed their position to “NO UNWARRANTED CONCESSIONSâ€? Oh I know, Seneca said those concessions weren’t warranted, right? Can you hear the sucking noise yet? NWA says they are bleeding money every day, AMFA says “NO NO NOâ€! Do you think a court or the government will lookout for AMFA or NWA? Tell me which Airline has not gotten exactly the amount they asked for in bankruptcy? Answer, NONE! Face it, the “force majeure†isn’t going to save AMFA, they screwed all of those mechanics, and their jobs aren’t coming back! At AA, the Union did exactly what a Union should’ve done. They got expert opinions and advice and let the membership decide their fate. Difficult as it was, the TWU membership voted NOT to send AA into bankruptcy because even though we didn’t cause the OUTRAGEOUSE MANAGEMENT that almost spiraled our company to financial ruin, we are ultimately the one’s who would’ve paid the price. Had we entered into bankruptcy, the company would’ve done exactly what every other major is doing, OUTSOURCE OUR WORK! What does that mean to you and me? NO JOB! And in AMFA’s “ the most senior few survive†outlook, thousands more would be unemployed and those left at AA would have not escaped lower wages and strained benefits just like those at United did not. One last thing Thomas, I’ve noticed you like to point out every mistake that posters make. Frankly, you are no Mark Twain, so if we want to play that game, we can, if not then stop criticizing grammatical errors and get on with your arguments (even if they don’t have any merit)!

 

[Buck]

Article II: Objects and Principles

The objects and principles of this Federation are:

1. To aid workers in securing improved wages, hours and working conditions with due regard for the autonomy, integrity and jurisdiction of affiliated unions.


The first objective of the AFL-CIO.

 

[RV4]

At NWA, AMFA claims they installed a “capâ€￾ for outsourcing (up to 38% with NO right to grieve). If that’s the case wouldn’t you think that NWA has exceeded it by now? AMFA say’s “NOâ€￾!! But they have managed to lay-off more than 4500 with more to come.

jake spreads the same LIES that G.T. Bunch attempted to spread....


Go to this thread for the facts:

/index.php...?showtopic=7073

 

[jake]

Buck,
You're still here! I figured you'd have shown us that you really believe the crap you spew by now! C'mon, you gotta come up with something better than that! It's tough to accomplish any of those goals if you agree to let the company outscource all our work and lay everyone off like your boys at NWA and United! Hey, the challenge is still out there......show all your boys they should take the lay-offs! Be leader for once in your life! Just say the words.....I QUIT!, cmon u can do it. Don't be two faced all your life!

 

[Buck]

You have not been around very long, I already did say I QUIT, I quit the TWU a long time ago. I post a fact from the AFL-CIO web site and you cry about another carrier. I guess you did not watch the question and answer involving GT Bunch? My above quote may be the only thing I agree with the AFL-CIO on, except the affiliates are not in my craft and class.

 

[jake]

Mo and Larry,
It’s apparent that you think McCormick isn’t a liar! Fortunately for the rest of us, we are open minded enough to see that if McCormick (un-elected as he is), makes $800,000 right now and stands to make $500,000 more if AMFA gains AA, just might LIE himself. We all know the AMFA SPIN on the 38% cap. If the language is so effective, when then did the outsourcing increase immediately after the signing of the agreement? Additionally, why does the PEB RECORD reflect that AMFA “agreed to outsourcing comfortably above current ratesâ€￾? And while we’re at it why did Kevin Wildermouth lie about how the employees felt about giving up their seniority rights? He said, at the meeting, “they were some unbelievable seniority bidding rightsâ€￾ and “it was no big deal to give them upâ€￾. ( Of course, I am having to paraphrase because AMFA would not let TWU in with audio or video equipment), but his intent was to say that the membership was in agreement with giving up the seniority rights. If that is the case, why did Kevin Wildermouth PURGER HIMSELF in front of the PEB. His testimony states, “many members have expressed their bitter opposition to what constitutes a DRAMATIC reduction of their seniority rightsâ€￾. NOW WHICH GROUP DID HE LIE TO, THE M&R HERE AT TULSA OR THE THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT? To continue the record states “By contrast, the new contractual subcontracting limitations- cited by Northwest as it’s PRINCIPAL WORK RULE CONCESSIONâ€￾. “AMFA should be credited with having brought 300 million in work rule concessions to the table TO FINANCE IT’S ECONOMIC DEMANDS IN THE PROSPECTIVE AGREEMENTâ€￾. Delle says “AMFA’s NEVER negotiated concessions…..I guess this doesn’t count?

Mo and Larry (Dave and Buck), you guys are both cowards! The “don’t be a cowardâ€￾ challenge is still out there! Show us boys, how much do you believe your own crap? “WALK THE WALK NOT JUST TALK THE TALKâ€￾!!!

 

[Bob Owens]

Mo and Larry,
It’s apparent that you think McCormick isn’t a liar! Fortunately for the rest of us, we are open minded enough to see that if McCormick (un-elected as he is), makes $800,000 right now and stands to make $500,000 more if AMFA gains AA, just might LIE himself. We all know the AMFA SPIN on the 38% cap. If the language is so effective, when then did the outsourcing increase immediately after the signing of the agreement? Additionally, why does the PEB RECORD reflect that AMFA “agreed to outsourcing comfortably above current ratesâ€? And while we’re at it why did Kevin Wildermouth lie about how the employees felt about giving up their seniority rights? He said, at the meeting, “they were some unbelievable seniority bidding rights†and “it was no big deal to give them upâ€. ( Of course, I am having to paraphrase because AMFA would not let TWU in with audio or video equipment), but his intent was to say that the membership was in agreement with giving up the seniority rights. If that is the case, why did Kevin Wildermouth PURGER HIMSELF in front of the PEB. His testimony states, “many members have expressed their bitter opposition to what constitutes a DRAMATIC reduction of their seniority rightsâ€. NOW WHICH GROUP DID HE LIE TO, THE M&R HERE AT TULSA OR THE THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT? To continue the record states “By contrast, the new contractual subcontracting limitations- cited by Northwest as it’s PRINCIPAL WORK RULE CONCESSIONâ€. “AMFA should be credited with having brought 300 million in work rule concessions to the table TO FINANCE IT’S ECONOMIC DEMANDS IN THE PROSPECTIVE AGREEMENTâ€. Delle says “AMFA’s NEVER negotiated concessions…..I guess this doesn’t count?

Mo and Larry (Dave and Buck), you guys are both cowards! The “don’t be a coward†challenge is still out there! Show us boys, how much do you believe your own crap? “WALK THE WALK NOT JUST TALK THE TALKâ€!!!

Should we start on Jim Littles lies?

Kevin Wildermuth can be voted out, how do we vote out Jim Little?

We cant vote out Jim Little but he can have elected representatives removed, at least thats what he told SJU.

Jim must have made some impression. Since he left most of SJU Tiltle I & II have signed AMFA cards and its rumored that Title III is signing AGW cards!

Way to go Jim.

I can understand why Sonny Hall could care less if he destroys this Union but unless Mary T has something lined up for Little I dont understand why he is running it off a cliff.