68 Democrats urge DOJ to drop opposition
- Thread starter UPNAWAY
- Start date
Dog Wonder
Veteran
No, actually the church wants to control your life. Government makes rules to keep us from doing ill to each other.
Phoenix
Veteran
Zero confiscates far more taxes and penalties out of every working citizen than any church ever asked for in free will donations. Both can make me ill but Zero is far more difficult to cure.
cltrat
Veteran
- Aug 29, 2007
- 5,484
- 3,067
maybe because they know if you're not a Dem he's not going to give you the time of day?
ChockJockey
Veteran
I can't imagine any sensible person being much interested or concerned with what the majority of House Republicans have to say especially given last week's tantrums and theatrics. To campaign on fiscal responsibility and then vote to intentionally damage the nation's creditworthiness throws one's reliability into question, imo.
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
- 10,721
ChockJockey
Veteran
The major credit rating houses, holders of trillions of dollars in US securities, the IMF, the GOP's own Wall Street contributors, and most economists with half a brain would beg to differ.
Creditworthiness depends on a person's or entity's ability to meet its debt obligations. Spending, while a concern to ceditors, is nowhere near as troubling as outright saying you have no intention of allowing your treasury to pay its bills, which is precisely what the House GOP was steering us towards. And this they did not even because of spending, but because of the super scary Romneybamacare.
- Thread Starter
- #13
We always had enough money to pay our bills (Debt) what we don't have enough money is to continue to spending on everythig else. Everyone that said we would/could defualt on debt payments was lying and they knew it. They were just trying to scare the American public into to agreeing to more spending. As soon as the deal was reached our credit was downgraded becuase we are just going to spend more.
ChockJockey
Veteran
You misunderstand. The debt ceiling isn't a limit on the amount of money Congress can spend, it's a limit on the Treasury Department's authority to borrow money to pay for those things Congress has already budgeted or legislated for. The reason "we've always had enough money" is because Treasury always has had the authorization to borrow. Had the authorization expired on 10/18, the Treasury Department would have had to rely on cash on hand in order to pay for everything, and these funds would only have lasted for so long. Why? Because we consistently run our budget with a deficit (as you know), and therefore by definition more money goes out than comes in. Once available funds hit $0, the Treasury would have defaulted on the next payment due, whether that be the pay of active military personnel, your grandma's SS check, or interest owed to the People's Bank of China.
The most obvious reason I know you're wrong here is that there were a lot of people adamantly opposed to increased government spending who nonetheless saw the dangers inherent in refusing the raise the debt ceiling and warned against it; the easiest examples would be those Republicans who voted to raise it, including McConnell and Boehner themselves. Otherwise there's no shortage of people who understood quite clearly the risks of toying with the debt limit: CEO's, foreign finance ministers, investors, economists, and others from all over the political spectrum spoke out against it. The Chinese, who own over a trillion dollars in U.S. debt were especially shrill, suggesting that the world should consider dumping the dollar as the premiere reserve currency given to the increasing turmoil of our political system threatening its integrity.
Care to link that? I think you're referring to Fitch putting the US on downgrade notice on 10/15 specifically because of Congressional theatrics (not because of excess spending) similar to how S&P actually had downgraded US credit in 2011 because of, again, Congressional debt limit theatrics (and not because of excess spending). As far as I know, Fitch did not actually downgrade the US credit rating. If I'm mistaken, please let me know; otherwise you're confused, mistaken, or just making things up.
The upshot is the House GOP gambled large on a losing strategy and it blew up in their faces, incurring real social and economic damage with a parliamentary tantrum that wasted everybody's time and achieved them virtually nothing (except a record low approval rating). That is why if I were President and Rep. Johnny Mouthbreather (R-GA) who voted to default on the national debt sent me a letter encouraging me to end the DOJ suit against AA and US, I'd smile to myself and have an aide throw it in the trash.
If I were you the lesson I'd take away from all this is not to parrot talking points from congressmen that know as much about economics as they do women's reproductive health (which is to say, very very little).
roabilly
Veteran
I know this thread is not about the debt ceiling, but... Republican majorities voted SEVEN times to raise the debt ceiling for President Bush in the eight years Bush was in office... I never herd a peep from FOX or Rush then!
As far as the politics go... I still think the deal will be approved once the necessary palms are greased and promises are made.
As far as the politics go... I still think the deal will be approved once the necessary palms are greased and promises are made.
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