A Worrisome Flight Path for JetBlue
- Thread starter BillLumbergh
- Start date
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On 3/9/2003 2:37:28 PM AAviator wrote:
2 words:
Western Pacific
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A CEO's name that counters the Western Pacific / Jetblue theme:
Ed Beauvais
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On 3/9/2003 2:37:28 PM AAviator wrote:
2 words:
Western Pacific
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[/blockquote]
A CEO's name that counters the Western Pacific / Jetblue theme:
Ed Beauvais
Actually, DD, if you look into things, you'd see that our CEO is a down to earth guy with lots of kids. He has gotten quite wealthy from ventures in the past,and probably will again. But it won't be by plundering our company. Our profit sharing was a double digit number. We are well taken care of. Our management team are not the high rolling, greed-motivated clowns who occupy the executive suites of so many companies these days. I know it is a tough industry, and things could change, but I'm betting my career on these guys. I think they'll do fine.
Farley,
For your sake I hope you're right. Just maybe he is a real leader and not just another standard CEO. The only real way to find out is when times get tough. If he's the first one to jump into a life boat along with his bags full of money, (sorry no room for workers) and move safely away from the sinking ship then you'll know if he is a leader or a CEO. Good luck.
For your sake I hope you're right. Just maybe he is a real leader and not just another standard CEO. The only real way to find out is when times get tough. If he's the first one to jump into a life boat along with his bags full of money, (sorry no room for workers) and move safely away from the sinking ship then you'll know if he is a leader or a CEO. Good luck.
whatkindoffreshhell
Veteran
How did Herb miss the opportunity of establishing a JFK hub?
WN doesn't miss much, I'm sorta suprised about this obvious error.
WN doesn't miss much, I'm sorta suprised about this obvious error.
He didn't.
JFK doesn't fit in with their strategy of avoiding uncongested airports without slot controls. While JFK is quiet during the morning hours, things tend to back up by early afternoon, and that would tend to screw up Southwest's strategy of keeping the 737's on the ground for as little time as possible. And again, that doesn't begin to take into account having to deal with slots for arrivals and departures.
jetBlue's strategy at JFK is also quite different than Southwest's overall strategy. Note that the broad majority of jetBlue's flights have a stage length of over 1000 miles; by contrast, most of Southwest's flights are short hops of under 750 miles. Moreover, the yields out of JFK just aren't all that great -- JBLU reported 9.00 cents/mile average revenue yield and 7.59 cents RASM for the 4th quarter. Compare that to LUV's 11.69 cents/mile average yield and RASM of 7.96 cents on a substantially lower load factor in the 4th quarter. It would be far more difficult to make WN's short-haul strategy work at JFK; it is telling that the ONLY short-haul flights added by B6 from JFK have been to upstate NY and BTV as payback for the slot exemptions they received.
JFK doesn't fit in with their strategy of avoiding uncongested airports without slot controls. While JFK is quiet during the morning hours, things tend to back up by early afternoon, and that would tend to screw up Southwest's strategy of keeping the 737's on the ground for as little time as possible. And again, that doesn't begin to take into account having to deal with slots for arrivals and departures.
jetBlue's strategy at JFK is also quite different than Southwest's overall strategy. Note that the broad majority of jetBlue's flights have a stage length of over 1000 miles; by contrast, most of Southwest's flights are short hops of under 750 miles. Moreover, the yields out of JFK just aren't all that great -- JBLU reported 9.00 cents/mile average revenue yield and 7.59 cents RASM for the 4th quarter. Compare that to LUV's 11.69 cents/mile average yield and RASM of 7.96 cents on a substantially lower load factor in the 4th quarter. It would be far more difficult to make WN's short-haul strategy work at JFK; it is telling that the ONLY short-haul flights added by B6 from JFK have been to upstate NY and BTV as payback for the slot exemptions they received.
I think SFB hit the nail on the head. Our strategy has been different from the outset. To get a headstart, our guys looked for someplace that was being avoided by everyone. Then they found a way to make it work (used some political connections). I wouldn't see why Southwest would ever have wanted JFK. Especially since 9-11 when increased landing fees make short-haul even more prohibitive out of JFK.
If jetBlue's flight path is "worrisome" then I'd hate to see the adjectives being used to describe the so-called flight paths of other major airlines in this business.
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FYI - Jet Blue is NOT a major!
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FYI - Jet Blue is NOT a major!
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On 3/11/2003 3:25:35 PM sfb wrote:
JFK doesn't fit in with their strategy of avoiding uncongested airports without slot controls. While JFK is quiet during the morning hours, things tend to back up by early afternoon.
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JFK is dead until around 5PM. Nothing happens there in the early afternnon except for a couple Asia flights and the regular AA/DL domestic mix.
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On 3/11/2003 3:25:35 PM sfb wrote:
it is telling that the ONLY short-haul flights added by B6 from JFK have been to upstate NY and BTV as payback for the slot exemptions they received.
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I agree with SYR and to an extent ROC but BUF is a good market. BTV must be making money since I doubt Chuck Shumer cares about bringing pricing sanity to Vermont.
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On 3/11/2003 15:38 Fly wrote:
FYI - Jet Blue is NOT a major!
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If growth remains constant then they will be by the year's end.
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On 3/11/2003 3:25:35 PM sfb wrote:
JFK doesn't fit in with their strategy of avoiding uncongested airports without slot controls. While JFK is quiet during the morning hours, things tend to back up by early afternoon.
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[/blockquote]
JFK is dead until around 5PM. Nothing happens there in the early afternnon except for a couple Asia flights and the regular AA/DL domestic mix.
[blockquote]
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On 3/11/2003 3:25:35 PM sfb wrote:
it is telling that the ONLY short-haul flights added by B6 from JFK have been to upstate NY and BTV as payback for the slot exemptions they received.
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[/blockquote]
I agree with SYR and to an extent ROC but BUF is a good market. BTV must be making money since I doubt Chuck Shumer cares about bringing pricing sanity to Vermont.
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On 3/11/2003 15:38 Fly wrote:
FYI - Jet Blue is NOT a major!
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[/blockquote]
If growth remains constant then they will be by the year's end.
To quote jetBlue's press release when its JFK slot exemptions were awarded:
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JetBlue wishes to express its gratitude to the Secretary of Transportation and the Assistant Secretary of Transportation for granting this order. Further, JetBlue is grateful for the leadership and strong support offered by United States Senator Charles Schumer, as well as Senators Daniel Patrick Moynihan, Patrick Leahy, Jim Jeffords, Bob Graham and Connie Mack.
JetBlue also wishes to thank its supporters in the House of Representatives: Congressman Gregory Meeks, John Sweeney, Louise Slaughter, John LaFalce, Sherwood Boehlert, Jim Walsh, Maurice Hinchey, Jack Quinn, Tom Reynolds, Mike McNulty, Amo Houghton, John McHugh, Rick Lazio, Mike Forbes, Sue Kelly, Ed Towns, Nita Lowey, Ben Gilman, Bernard Sanders, Clay Shaw, Robert Wexler and Corrine Brown.
JetBlue also is grateful to Vermont Governor Howard Dean, New York Governor George Pataki, Florida Governor Jeb Bush and New York City Mayor Rudy Guiliani for their unwavering support.
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Note the names:
Sen. Jim Jeffords (at the time, R-VT)
Sen. Patrick Leahy (D-VT)
Congressman Bernard Sanders (I-VT)
Vermont Governor Howard Dean
BTV is payback.
Louise Slaugher represents Rochester, Sherwood Boehlert is from the Utica area, Jim Walsh is from Syracuse, etc.
[blockquote]
JetBlue wishes to express its gratitude to the Secretary of Transportation and the Assistant Secretary of Transportation for granting this order. Further, JetBlue is grateful for the leadership and strong support offered by United States Senator Charles Schumer, as well as Senators Daniel Patrick Moynihan, Patrick Leahy, Jim Jeffords, Bob Graham and Connie Mack.
JetBlue also wishes to thank its supporters in the House of Representatives: Congressman Gregory Meeks, John Sweeney, Louise Slaughter, John LaFalce, Sherwood Boehlert, Jim Walsh, Maurice Hinchey, Jack Quinn, Tom Reynolds, Mike McNulty, Amo Houghton, John McHugh, Rick Lazio, Mike Forbes, Sue Kelly, Ed Towns, Nita Lowey, Ben Gilman, Bernard Sanders, Clay Shaw, Robert Wexler and Corrine Brown.
JetBlue also is grateful to Vermont Governor Howard Dean, New York Governor George Pataki, Florida Governor Jeb Bush and New York City Mayor Rudy Guiliani for their unwavering support.
[/blockquote]
Note the names:
Sen. Jim Jeffords (at the time, R-VT)
Sen. Patrick Leahy (D-VT)
Congressman Bernard Sanders (I-VT)
Vermont Governor Howard Dean
BTV is payback.
Louise Slaugher represents Rochester, Sherwood Boehlert is from the Utica area, Jim Walsh is from Syracuse, etc.
sfb,
It isn't payback but rather political quid pro quo. It shows that jetBlue management has enough sense to know that in this industry you better know how to schmooze with the body politic if you want to be successful in the business arena. You can put another feather in the cap of jetBlue, and use this an object lesson for the big boys (read: AMR & UAL) who could use a refresher on the importance of being politically savvy when the odds are stacked against you.
It isn't payback but rather political quid pro quo. It shows that jetBlue management has enough sense to know that in this industry you better know how to schmooze with the body politic if you want to be successful in the business arena. You can put another feather in the cap of jetBlue, and use this an object lesson for the big boys (read: AMR & UAL) who could use a refresher on the importance of being politically savvy when the odds are stacked against you.
Thanks for the quote on the exemptions. I had no idea that Vermont got in on the action, but tinking about it now it makes sense.
Well it looks like B6 have about 70 flights a day a JFK and I think they only have 75 slots. So will they start flying to Portland Maine and get a Maine congressman to pony up some more slots?
Well it looks like B6 have about 70 flights a day a JFK and I think they only have 75 slots. So will they start flying to Portland Maine and get a Maine congressman to pony up some more slots?
Cosmo
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 840
- 0
JetBlue doesn't need to acquire any more slots because the slot requirement at JFK exists only between the hours of 3:00 PM and 8:00 PM. The majority (I don't have the exact number but I believe that it is around 65%) of JetBlue's current flights at JFK are operated outside that 5-hour period, leaving an ample supply of slots still available to the carrier.
One other item -- IIRC, JetBlue has access to enough slots for 75 round trips (i.e., 150 take-off and landing slots) at JFK during the restricted hours.
One other item -- IIRC, JetBlue has access to enough slots for 75 round trips (i.e., 150 take-off and landing slots) at JFK during the restricted hours.
[blockquote]
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On 3/12/2003 2:37:50 PM audio-nut wrote:
I agree with SYR and to an extent ROC but BUF is a good market. BTV must be making money since I doubt Chuck Shumer cares about bringing pricing sanity to Vermont.
[/blockquote]
He probably cares a little, since BTV's "catchment area" includes the Plattsburgh area of way, WAY upstate NY.
There's a few potential voters up there.
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On 3/12/2003 2:37:50 PM audio-nut wrote:
I agree with SYR and to an extent ROC but BUF is a good market. BTV must be making money since I doubt Chuck Shumer cares about bringing pricing sanity to Vermont.
[/blockquote]
He probably cares a little, since BTV's "catchment area" includes the Plattsburgh area of way, WAY upstate NY.
There's a few potential voters up there.
