JFK Fleet Service
Veteran
Once again knowing the cost of everything and the value of nothing rears its head at AA.
AA 777 loses 2L door at DFW in bizzare incident
- Thread starter FWAAA
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Hopeful
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Why shouldn't he? He probably had a flight attendant take his seat for landing so he could be first one off!
But seriously..Not knowing fully what happened, this was an avoidable accident. All involved need to explain.
So very true.
Someone has to turn on the self park system. Someone has to make sure that the ramp area is clear of ground vehicles.
Someone has to hookup ground power. AA does not want to run APUs on the gate. The 777 must have two power sources at all times, so who was there to plug in at least one ground power cord with APU or two without APU running? What about the PCA hose? You need two for the 777 for proper cooling. Who was standing by on the service road blocking traffic when the 777 was taxiing into the gate. All these things are AA policies and procedures. Some might even be FAA and local airport rules. This situation was not a normal SOP arrival. Someone here screwed up really big time.
Someone has to hookup ground power. AA does not want to run APUs on the gate. The 777 must have two power sources at all times, so who was there to plug in at least one ground power cord with APU or two without APU running? What about the PCA hose? You need two for the 777 for proper cooling. Who was standing by on the service road blocking traffic when the 777 was taxiing into the gate. All these things are AA policies and procedures. Some might even be FAA and local airport rules. This situation was not a normal SOP arrival. Someone here screwed up really big time.
A few thoughts for those throwing rocks in the early stages.
1. Who was the pilot getting off first? While FO, i was called "Captain" 50% of the time by other employees. I also know from my 777 time, there isn't room in the cockpit for 3 guys trying to hit the lav and clean up post-flight, or stand with the FA's in the forward galley. If I was close to the exit, I would leave immediately.
2. "The pilots forgot to set the brake" I saw this once in over 20 years. It can happen, but I've seen many more hydraulic leaks or loss of brake pressure problems once the engine and eletric pumps were turned off.
3. "The ground crew forgot the chocks". I have never seen this happen in the same period as above. More than likely, (we do not know at this point), the pilots parked using the DGS system which doesn't require anybody to block roads. I would also guess that the ramp controllers can turn on and set the system without the grouind crew . SOP probably also does not require ground air and electric to park with DGS and the APU is left on routinely when this happens (no ground crew).
"Someone here screwed up really big time." I agree, but that happened when somebody approved the present procedures and reduced the safety backups in place for years. One example, ask who places the chocks for an aircraft parking before a TRW hits when the ramp is closed for lightning. Then ask who is responsible for an unchocked aircraft that sits through a DFW supercell with 75 kt winds. I doubt a MENSA application will be mailed to those who made that decision. :blink:
1. Who was the pilot getting off first? While FO, i was called "Captain" 50% of the time by other employees. I also know from my 777 time, there isn't room in the cockpit for 3 guys trying to hit the lav and clean up post-flight, or stand with the FA's in the forward galley. If I was close to the exit, I would leave immediately.
2. "The pilots forgot to set the brake" I saw this once in over 20 years. It can happen, but I've seen many more hydraulic leaks or loss of brake pressure problems once the engine and eletric pumps were turned off.
3. "The ground crew forgot the chocks". I have never seen this happen in the same period as above. More than likely, (we do not know at this point), the pilots parked using the DGS system which doesn't require anybody to block roads. I would also guess that the ramp controllers can turn on and set the system without the grouind crew . SOP probably also does not require ground air and electric to park with DGS and the APU is left on routinely when this happens (no ground crew).
"Someone here screwed up really big time." I agree, but that happened when somebody approved the present procedures and reduced the safety backups in place for years. One example, ask who places the chocks for an aircraft parking before a TRW hits when the ramp is closed for lightning. Then ask who is responsible for an unchocked aircraft that sits through a DFW supercell with 75 kt winds. I doubt a MENSA application will be mailed to those who made that decision. :blink:
The tower controls the Self park system,there are control panels in front of each gate which are rarely used.
Self park scans the area with a radar sweep giving clearance to park,This does not always "clear the way" as a plane has struck a Cochran loader that was parked on a closed gate (perTower).There have been other accidents as a result of self parking.
AA isn't to concerned about APU's running , they are left running all the time even with PCA hooked up.
No guide men blocking service road as this is "self parking" system,must anticipate when and what gate they are going to !
The main reason DFW/AA installed this was after a rash of severe storms a few years back and the resulting tarmac holds, DFW/AA wanted the planes parked on a gate.With the old system requiring FSC wing walkers/guide men,if the ramp was closed the FSC would not come out for safety reasons and the planes would sit waiting.
AstroLounge
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Sounds like You have a lot of excuses for why "It couldn't be MY fault". This could have been a very serious incident where people could have been injured, if not killed and major damage done to ramp vehicles and the gate area. Someone needs to be held accountable and I can clearly see where the Flight Deck Crew should probably be responsible for any secondary checks. It sounds like this Auto Park system has it's flaws but SOMEONE (probably the infamous "Not Me") signed off on the policy and needs to take a Fall. Anyone know what the replacement value of a B777 door is anyways?
"a lot of excuses"?
Although I'm not familiar, I'm sure there are some internet sites that could translate into crayon/coloring book form for your comprehension.
I said it could have been the Flight Crews fault, but only saw a brake not set once in 20 years (10,000+ flight hours) I never said they forgot the brake, especially after flying 11 hours through the night.
I said I never have seen the ground crew not set the chocks in the same period.
I said I've seen many brake/hydraulic problems over the same period, and leaving an aircraft secured based only on the parking brake is an idiotic management decision.
" Someone needs to be held accountable and I can clearly see where the Flight Deck Crew should probably be responsible for any secondary checks."
You can "clearly see" based on what experience? Feel free to dissertate your experience with accumulator pressure versus pump pressure, whether the anti-skid system is disabled, what indicated pressure bleed off with pump shutdown is acceptable, where the pressure reading is taken for display in the cockpit.
If you have a problem, email your favorite PUPcollector. One of them is responsible for this procedure that saves money, but risks a $100 million dollar aircraft with a parking policy that I wouldn't recommend for a 20 year old Toyota Corrolla parked on a street with a slight incline.
I still don't get we are all so ready to blame the DGS system. From what I know about this the auto park had nothing to do with it. The ground was not at fault as the aircraft was on the gate before they even started. this simply comes down to 1 of 2 things, either the brakes were not set (or released) without the chocks in place or there was a technical failure in the aircraft itself. Frankly I have also only seen a cockpiut crew not set the brakes once also, but it was within the last 2 years and in a similiar circumstance. It also resulted in a damage that occurred in much the same way.
Self park or no self park the wheels should have been chocked. Ground personnel should be in place on every arrival to prevent or correct a potential problem. AA has different rules depending on the situation. All to get an on-time arrival at the cost of safety. Even if the brakes were not set the aircraft would have not rolled if properly chocked upon arrival. That is why we use chocks.
jimntx
Veteran
Just out of curiosity...is there any chance this was a jetbridge malfunction?
There's a reason why we chock airplanes, parking brakes are known to malfunction. From Cesnas to 747s chocks are pretty much standard. I doubt the pilot forgot to set the brakes. The only time I've seen the crew, either maint or flight, forget to set the brakes is when they are being towed.
Not chocking the aircraft was a bad idea, obviously.
Not chocking the aircraft was a bad idea, obviously.
