AA and flights to LHR
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BuffaloJoe
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From my understanding,LHR is slot restricted and still will be. AA to fly to DFW-LHR, will happen IMO, they will just pull a slot from another city that AA travels from the US to LHR. I do not know what cities have LHR service other than JFK and BOS. The problem will be getting slots for other carriers that currently do not have LHR access. I would safely say that ALL current LGW would like to move over to LHR. And some would keep both going as well. I think AA first move would be to move DFW-LGW operation to LHR. They will have to pull one of their LHR flights currently to replace it with DFW. Or otherwise buy a slot from another carrier. I think this will be good for all and it will give the US carriers a better chance with competition all around.
eolesen
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Dunno. There are still only a limited number of LHR slots available, so it all depends upon what happens with regard to AA/BA finally being approved.
If they're finally able to start codewhoring on each other's North Atlantic services, it's possible that some frequency adjustments could be made in markets where they have a shared presence, i.e. LHR-JFK where AA has six flights and BA has eight, and LHR-ORD where AA has five flights and BA has three.
That in turn could free up slots for AA to move its three flights a day from DFW and RDU over to LHR, and for BA to move its DFW, IAH, MCO, TPA and ATL flights over to LHR.
The downside to that is that BA has built up a decent connecting hub at LGW, especially to Africa, and I don't know that they want to write off the North America feed so quickly.
For reference, in the 6/1/07 schedule:
LHR to: JFK 6X, ORD 5X, BOS 2x, LAX 2X, and MIA 1X.
LGW to: DFW 2X, RDU 1X
BA:
LHR to: JFK 8X, ORD 3X, BOS 3X, LAX 3X, SFO 2X, SEA 1X, PHL 2X, IAD 3X, BWI 1X, EWR 3X, MIA 2X, PHX 1X, DEN 1X, DTW 1X
LGW to: IAH 2X, DFW 1X, MCO 1X, TPA 1X, ATL 1X
I might have missed a few along the way...
If they're finally able to start codewhoring on each other's North Atlantic services, it's possible that some frequency adjustments could be made in markets where they have a shared presence, i.e. LHR-JFK where AA has six flights and BA has eight, and LHR-ORD where AA has five flights and BA has three.
That in turn could free up slots for AA to move its three flights a day from DFW and RDU over to LHR, and for BA to move its DFW, IAH, MCO, TPA and ATL flights over to LHR.
The downside to that is that BA has built up a decent connecting hub at LGW, especially to Africa, and I don't know that they want to write off the North America feed so quickly.
For reference, in the 6/1/07 schedule:
LHR to: JFK 6X, ORD 5X, BOS 2x, LAX 2X, and MIA 1X.
LGW to: DFW 2X, RDU 1X
BA:
LHR to: JFK 8X, ORD 3X, BOS 3X, LAX 3X, SFO 2X, SEA 1X, PHL 2X, IAD 3X, BWI 1X, EWR 3X, MIA 2X, PHX 1X, DEN 1X, DTW 1X
LGW to: IAH 2X, DFW 1X, MCO 1X, TPA 1X, ATL 1X
I might have missed a few along the way...
BA's CEO is salivating over the possibility of flying JFK-LAX/SFO in the future:
http://yahoo.reuters.com/news/articlehybri...News&rpc=44
Yikes.
http://yahoo.reuters.com/news/articlehybri...News&rpc=44
Yikes.
Just wondering if AA is currently using all the slots they have at LHR. I seem to recall when they purchased the TWA routes and slots, they also got some connecting intra-Europe routes that TWA used to fly 727's on, and AA never did fly. What ever happened to those slots?
I think those TWA rights are distinct from the landing slots at LHR, of which AA is currently using all it owns.
IIRC, UAL sold some LHR slots in the last few years - wonder whether anyone at UAL now regrets that?
BuffaloJoe
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UA just recently sold its JFK-LHR rights to DL. I thought that was a dumb move then and it looks even dumber now. But I guess UA needed the money at the time.
eolesen
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Not necessarily dumb. BMI is a Star Alliance partner, and they're quite likely to startup LHR-JFK with their own metal since they already have the second or third largest slot collection at LHR. Since UA will be able to codewhore on that, they've got little to lose.
The biggest loser on this is VS -- AA and BA essentially get their immunity without being forced to divest of slots (one of the stipulations which killed the previous application), and UA only cared about service from their hubs. VS on the other hand now has to face the possibility of specialty carriers like Eos and MaxJet moving ops from STN to LHR, and whatever US, CO and DL customers they were able to attract to LHR will now be flying on US, CO, and DL metal instead of VS. Perhaps the DOT's approval of VX will be their consolation prize, but even that may be short lived...
The biggest loser on this is VS -- AA and BA essentially get their immunity without being forced to divest of slots (one of the stipulations which killed the previous application), and UA only cared about service from their hubs. VS on the other hand now has to face the possibility of specialty carriers like Eos and MaxJet moving ops from STN to LHR, and whatever US, CO and DL customers they were able to attract to LHR will now be flying on US, CO, and DL metal instead of VS. Perhaps the DOT's approval of VX will be their consolation prize, but even that may be short lived...
In hindsight, UA's sale of NYC-LON to DL looks brilliant; $13 million cash upfront for route authority that anyone can fly next year. Dunno if UA has to rebate any of that money - somewhere I have a copy of the agreement, but can't find it right now. Here's an article about the purchase:
http://news.airwise.com/story/view/1154386945.html
Of course, UA won't be getting the additional $2 million/year from DL.
At the time, many speculated that once UA bought CO, it would once again own NYC-LON authority (currently operated by CO) and could once again fly JFK-LHR (with the slots DL could not buy). 😀
http://news.airwise.com/story/view/1154386945.html
Of course, UA won't be getting the additional $2 million/year from DL.
At the time, many speculated that once UA bought CO, it would once again own NYC-LON authority (currently operated by CO) and could once again fly JFK-LHR (with the slots DL could not buy). 😀
In case he no-shows, here's the thread from the DL forum containing his defense of the purchase:
http://www.usaviation.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=30013
I could see AA pulling one ORD & one of either BOS or LAX to fund both DFW & RDU. Remember, RDU is for a single corp client. I see them being asked to move the operation to LHR.
I still see the other carriers being essentially locked out until the 3rd runway is built. The airport authority at that point might be forced to favor non-incumbents in granting additional slots. That's when you'll see the market open up...not much until then other than current occupants shifting their slots.
I still see the other carriers being essentially locked out until the 3rd runway is built. The airport authority at that point might be forced to favor non-incumbents in granting additional slots. That's when you'll see the market open up...not much until then other than current occupants shifting their slots.
"I make no secret of the fact that having more airlines flying into Heathrow by definition can't be good for anybody who is flying to Heathrow today," American chief executive Gerard Arpey said Wednesday at a J.P. Morgan transportation conference.
But Mr. Arpey noted that "there could be some opportunities there" for Oneworld – American's alliance with British Airways PLC and a number of other international carriers – that could help American.
However, opening up Heathrow will not mean a free-for-all as only those companies that already have coveted slots – approved times for takeoff and landings – at Heathrow, Europe's busiest hub, will benefit until a new terminal opens more opportunities to new carriers.
"British Midlands has slots. They would like to fly from Heathrow across the Atlantic. Aer Lingus has slots they cannot fly," an EU official said, mentioning smaller European airlines that could benefit from the deal.
story here
But Mr. Arpey noted that "there could be some opportunities there" for Oneworld – American's alliance with British Airways PLC and a number of other international carriers – that could help American.
However, opening up Heathrow will not mean a free-for-all as only those companies that already have coveted slots – approved times for takeoff and landings – at Heathrow, Europe's busiest hub, will benefit until a new terminal opens more opportunities to new carriers.
"British Midlands has slots. They would like to fly from Heathrow across the Atlantic. Aer Lingus has slots they cannot fly," an EU official said, mentioning smaller European airlines that could benefit from the deal.
story here
