Amazing, Doogie's thoughts on LCC pensions...

[LCC_#1]

Correct me if I'm wrong...but didn't Dougie just make a $10.8 billion hostile bid for DL??????

Just how long do you think it would take to make a return on that investment????? How much cost would it take to even merge those employees? Get rid of routes that overlap, more furloughs and giving back a/c while DL sits in BK.

My friend, the execs and investors are only looking out to cash in a return of no less than 500%. If they can do it on your back for as long as your back doesn't break, they most certainly will.

If you are not for you...who will be for you????

Pitbull
I am not advocating huge ceo increases, but you can NOT look at me with a straight face and not recognize that this is not just a ceo problem. This industry has LOTS of problems, but to somehow always put it on every airline ceo is short sided.

 

[PITbull]

Pitbull
I am not advocating huge ceo increases, but you can NOT look at me with a straight face and not recognize that this is not just a ceo problem. This industry has LOTS of problems, but to somehow always put it on every airline ceo is short sided.

No. I believe the issue is a CEO, Senior management, BOD issue who have the gold and make the rules. There is not an exec in history that will tap labor on the shoulders and say, "Gee, now is a good time to increase your wages and benefits". Any negotiated contract ever on the property came with hard work, creativity, shrewedness, persistance, and a stance and sense of collective self-worth and value.

Otherwise, you wouldn't have seen one damn year in the business of a decent livable wage.

 

[LCC_#1]

No. I believe the issue is a CEO, Senior management, BOD issue who have the gold and make the rules. There is not an exec in history that will tap labor on the shoulders and say, "Gee, now is a good time to increase your wages and benefits". Any negotiated contract ever on the property came with hard work, creativity, shrewedness, persistance, and a stance and sense of collective self-worth and value.

Otherwise, you wouldn't have seen one damn year in the business of a decent livable wage.

Try Ed Colodny on for size.

And we see what parity with the Piedmont people did after that. This was loooooooong before Wolf, Siegle, Lakefield, or the devil himself, Doug Parker.
Edited in..... The industry cannot afford the huge CEO salaries, but the industry ALSO cannot afford the kind of contracts like we had in 1990.

 

[PITbull]

Try Ed Colodny on for size.

And we see what parity with the Piedmont people did after that. This was loooooooong before Wolf, Siegle, Lakefield, or the devil himself, Doug Parker.
Edited in..... The industry cannot afford the huge CEO salaries, but the industry ALSO cannot afford the kind of contracts like we had in 1990.

U employees don't deserve to be at the bottom of the heep with the legacies when it comes to wages and benefits. Colodny was a 25-year CEO, deserving of every single dime he got.

Gangwal 6-year era brought U collective profits year over year up to year 2000, and that's because their focus changed from being a global world class carrier to trying to convince congress and the DOT that consolidation of the industry was imperative and the United merger was the best option on the table.

I remember when U profited $1 billion in 1998, stock price hit $82 and the company started buying up the stock. Pensions were in tact, over 400 a/c and wages were up.
I remember the history quite well.

 

[LCC_#1]

U employees don't deserve to be at the bottom of the heep with the legacies when it comes to wages and benefits. Colodny was a 25-year CEO, deserving of every single dime he got.

Gangwal 6-year era brought U collective profits year over year up to year 2000, and that's because their focus changed from being a global world class carrier to trying to convince congress and the DOT that consolidation of the industry was imperative and the United merger was the best option on the table.

I remember when U profited $1 billion in 1998, stock price hit $82 and the company started buying up the stock. I remember the history quite well.

and none of us will ever forget the "there is no plan B." statement.

 

[PITbull]

As I stated in my previous posts... the issue is with the Execs and BOD. They lost focus, got distracted on a merger instead of the operation with no plan B when it didn't work out.

Colodny's 25 years was spent in operating an airline. His successors were interested in capitizing on stock options and cashing in...all the way through present day.

All that money, all that profit and a management that lost their way focused on consolidation, and took the company over the brink and near extinction.

Meanwhile back at the ranch...labor did their jobs and kept their focus, but unfortunately had to pay the price for ineptness,poor decision making and planning all the way to current day.

 

[Doc]

When you pee on employees, they tend to pee on customers. Since I'm a customer I have a problem with that.

The most successful airline in the US takes a much different approach towards employees and I defy to you find a loyaler customer base.

Wall street doesn't want to hear that because you can't quantify it. This failed merger is a victory for everyone who punchs a clock in DL & US. The Money Lenders were thrown from the Temple or should I say "Tempe"

WOW! Talking about hitting the nail on the head. Most could care less about the customer just get my 8 and some OT and go home.
I tell you... you would be hard pressed to find someone who cares like they used to. YES I AM ONE.
It would be so easy to build moral back up just a few bucks an hour give back double time.

I am wasting my time even bring this up.

 

[LCC_#1]

WOW! Talking about hitting the nail on the head. Most could care less about the customer just get my 8 and some OT and go home.
I tell you... you would be hard pressed to find someone who cares like they used to. YES I AM ONE.
It would be so easy to build moral back up just a few bucks an hour give back double time.

I am wasting my time even bring this up.

I am sorry, but there is NO excuse for a poor work ethic. Some out here act as if moral here has just happened. Infact, I have worked very few years where moral wasn't bad. And maybe it's just me...I am actually a WORKING employee like you Doc...but I don't find moral to be low.

You could give a million bucks to some of our employees and they still wouldn't be happy.

 

[fanlube]

Try Ed Colodny on for size.

And we see what parity with the Piedmont people did after that. This was loooooooong before Wolf, Siegle, Lakefield, or the devil himself, Doug Parker.
Edited in..... The industry cannot afford the huge CEO salaries, but the industry ALSO cannot afford the kind of contracts like we had in 1990.

The industry can't afford huge CEO salaries but they are still getting them, off the backs of the workers I might add!! Every day that goes by without a transition agreement is just another day that Doug and the gang are showing you how they feel about the people who actually make this airline run!

 

[WorldTraveler]

Other airlines have managed to cut costs without terminating pensions and screwing everything employees have. NW had more than enough opportunity to terminate its pensions - but didn't. DL didn't terminate its pensions for non-pilot personnel. Both NW and DL will be much stronger financially than US when they emerge from BK based on both costs and the balance sheet. DL only terminated its pilot pension plan because the industry-unique lump sum distribution feature meant DL could never bring it back to full funding w/o another thousand pilots jumping in to cash out.

Unlike UA and DL, US did not put clauses in its pension termination agreements with the PBGC to prohibit reinstatement. However, UA and DL both paid significant premiums to the PBGC in the form of debt, bankruptcy claims, and equity in order to keep the PBGC from trying to reinstate the pensions in the future. Sometimes when you rush into a deal, you fail to consider all the eventualities and end up having the deal fall apart.

You do know that Parker TESTIFIED at the Senate hearing that he would rather own Southwest Airlines, an airline that has some of the most generous competition schemes in the industry. Suppose he savors the prospect of going after those pension plans also?

 

[Flufdriver]

Other airlines have managed to cut costs without terminating pensions and screwing everything employees have. NW had more than enough opportunity to terminate its pensions - but didn't. DL didn't terminate its pensions for non-pilot personnel. Both NW and DL will be much stronger financially than US when they emerge from BK based on both costs and the balance sheet. DL only terminated its pilot pension plan because the industry-unique lump sum distribution feature meant DL could never bring it back to full funding w/o another thousand pilots jumping in to cash out.

Unlike UA and DL, US did not put clauses in its pension termination agreements with the PBGC to prohibit reinstatement. However, UA and DL both paid significant premiums to the PBGC in the form of debt, bankruptcy claims, and equity in order to keep the PBGC from trying to reinstate the pensions in the future. Sometimes when you rush into a deal, you fail to consider all the eventualities and end up having the deal fall apart.

You do know that Parker TESTIFIED at the Senate hearing that he would rather own Southwest Airlines, an airline that has some of the most generous competition schemes in the industry. Suppose he savors the prospect of going after those pension plans also?

It's almost time for the "ignore" feature....this guy has a problem!!! Can you imagine either being married to him or working next to him everyday.... 😛

 

[Walmartgreeter]

" Unlike UA and DL, US did not put clauses in its pension termination agreements with the PBGC to prohibit reinstatement."

WT.. could you speak a little more as to this? It is the first time I have heard it. If we can back off a little from the big picture, this has some bearing on issues as to my lost pension... that of a U pilot. Best, Greeter.

 

[PITbull]

" Unlike UA and DL, US did not put clauses in its pension termination agreements with the PBGC to prohibit reinstatement."

WT.. could you speak a little more as to this? It is the first time I have heard it. If we can back off a little from the big picture, this has some bearing on issues as to my lost pension... that of a U pilot. Best, Greeter.

Now, we're talking business...

Maybe its just me, but there is just something so obscene about a Co. who dumps their long-term, loyal employees pension plans while the Execs become instant mllionaires within the year of emergence from BK, attempt to bid $10.8 billion for a hostile takeover in that SAME year, and still not consumate a recent merger with no labor group having closed their transition contracts.

 

[kao]

Pssst! The Pensions Were Gone WAY Before Parker Was On The Scene!! Ya'll Need To Let It GO!! 😛

guess I do not understand why so many are so easy to say---just let it go.....? No one seems interested in fighting for what is RIGHT

Correct me if I'm wrong...but didn't Dougie just make a $10.8 billion hostile bid for DL?????? I remember the same lame retorhic ad nauseum when we were in those past bankruptcies... "live to fight another day" bullshittt. Well, is this not the day? If not now, then when?

Just how long do you think it would take to make a return on that investment of a hostile takeover????? How much cost would it take to even merge those employees? Get rid of routes that overlap, more furloughs and giving back a/c while DL sits in BK.

My friend, the execs and investors are only looking out to cash in a return of no less than 500%. If they can do it on your back for as long as your back doesn't break, they most certainly will.

If you are not for you...who will be for you????

wow....why can we not get all to see this? Plese...PM me if you can give me any ideas to get my city more motivasted to fight for what is right....your insight would be welcomed--big time!!

I am sorry, but there is NO excuse for a poor work ethic. Some out here act as if moral here has just happened. Infact, I have worked very few years where moral wasn't bad. And maybe it's just me...I am actually a WORKING employee like you Doc...but I don't find moral to be low.

You could give a million bucks to some of our employees and they still wouldn't be happy.

you must be in a hub where moral is not low.....

 

[Walmartgreeter]

"Maybe its just me, but there is just something so obscene about a Co. who dumps their long-term, loyal employees pension plans while the Execs become instant mllionaires within the year of emergence from BK, attempt to bid $10.8 billion for a hostile takeover in that SAME year, and still not consumate a recent merger with no labor group having closed their transition contracts."

Perfect framing of the issues at hand. This entire sequence of events is a disgrace to a free market economy (note..free market, not free for all!!) I often talk to my young children about what seems right and wrong to them...this would be too easy a question!

Best, Greeter.