American Airlines overtakes Delta Air Lines and United Airlines to become #1 at Los Angeles
- Thread starter Crash Pad DCA
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WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
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Obviously lots of people care. look at the number of views this post has had
and no one said a thing about not posting any data.... but someone wanted to trot out a story that shows that there really isn't any change in the market position of AA either before or after the merger. AA might be pushing more metal and seats thru LAX but they were in the #1 position before and still are in terms of the local market.
The story should be about the changing market positions of the big 4 in the LAX market - because that has not been a constant.
and when you bother to look at the data for the big 3 cities of the US, AA/US is worse off than they were 7 years ago when the current wave of industry consolidation began.
Sure, AA might catch up in the next few years... but most of us have said for some time that UA isn't going to give anything up in Chicago, NYC facility and slot constraints prohibit any meaningful movement in the NYC market, and LAX simply does not have the real estate to allow any carrier to grow enough to become significantly larger than any other carriers. Further, there is ample evidence that DL and UA have managed to fine tune their facilities and resources at LAX to focus on the local market and grow their share despite increased facilities.
For those who are interested in business issues of the industry, that is a topic worth discussing on an objective basis.
given the vast majority of this board involves whining and complaining by labor and promises by one union to do something which the others have not, business issues are indeed something different.
those who don't have the capacity or desire to talk about business issues can talk about other issues... not a terribly hard concept
and no one said a thing about not posting any data.... but someone wanted to trot out a story that shows that there really isn't any change in the market position of AA either before or after the merger. AA might be pushing more metal and seats thru LAX but they were in the #1 position before and still are in terms of the local market.
The story should be about the changing market positions of the big 4 in the LAX market - because that has not been a constant.
and when you bother to look at the data for the big 3 cities of the US, AA/US is worse off than they were 7 years ago when the current wave of industry consolidation began.
Sure, AA might catch up in the next few years... but most of us have said for some time that UA isn't going to give anything up in Chicago, NYC facility and slot constraints prohibit any meaningful movement in the NYC market, and LAX simply does not have the real estate to allow any carrier to grow enough to become significantly larger than any other carriers. Further, there is ample evidence that DL and UA have managed to fine tune their facilities and resources at LAX to focus on the local market and grow their share despite increased facilities.
For those who are interested in business issues of the industry, that is a topic worth discussing on an objective basis.
given the vast majority of this board involves whining and complaining by labor and promises by one union to do something which the others have not, business issues are indeed something different.
those who don't have the capacity or desire to talk about business issues can talk about other issues... not a terribly hard concept
bob@las-AA
Veteran
WorldTraveler said:
This would be your first mistake, you are a armchair CEO. I'm sure a app is available to give you all the thrills and spills of being head honcho of a make believe airline and offer you hours of entertainment. But frankly, I wish threads like this would never surface. It serves no meaningful purpose, except to bloat ones ego.
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
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your last sentence is the most accurate.
I didn't start it but I will and have noted the FACTS about the topic.
when people post articles about business aspects of the business and have no idea what they are talking about, then it should come as a surprise to no one that the actual facts will be posted.
If you or others don't want to see these kinds of discussions, then ask the mods to cut the threads off from the very beginning because you and others don't want to see business issues discussed because there isn't enough knowledge on this board to adequately discuss them
in the case of this discussion, AA has been the largest of the big 3 at LAX for years - long before the merger.
Nothing changed with the merger in that regard.
what has changed despite what the article or anyone here says is that AA didn't pass anyone but DL and UA have traded places as the 2nd largest carrier at LAX.
if you don't want to see those facts or deal with that reality, then make certain that you tell your fellow posters that they should not post those kinds of articles or launch those kinds of discussions and tell the moderators and owners of this board that you don't want business issues to be discussed
Nice find Crash. I said from the very beginning that AA will indeed surpass Delta on all counts once they have the same time out of BK as Delta had. This is just yet another proven fact that AA is actually achieving much, much better results, and at approx 25-50% sooner than Delta was able to show. Also shows that Delta only took advantage of all the other airlines going thru BK while they were the fist in and out (yes it did have an advantage to be first in and out) now we will all start seeing Delta fall to #2 as well as #3 spot in several other catagories as we move forward. AA will return to the #1 size, shape, customers, profits etc... You name it AA will get back to it's number one spot by the this time next year...Crash Pad DCA said:http://www.anna.aero/2015/08/18/american-airlines-overtakes-delta-air-lines-united-airlines-become-1-los-angeles/
“And the Oscar for the largest carrier goes to…”
American Airlines is the number one carrier out of LAX in S15, helped in part by its merger with US Airways, meaning that Delta Air Lines and United Airlines will have to perfect their ‘happy to just be nominated’ face after falling to second and third places respectively. This means that the top three carriers at LAX are also representing the top three airline alliances of oneworld, SkyTeam and Star Alliance. When looking at the carrier mix from an alliance point of view at LAX, Star is number one, with the alliance having a total of 15 airlines serving LAX, which when combined occupy 24% of seat capacity. SkyTeam is second with 11 carriers commanding 22% of seat capacity, while oneworld is third with just under 22% of capacity with seven airlines representing the alliance. 32% of the remaining capacity is made up of non-alliance member airlines, although Emirates has the well-known Skywards programme...
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
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you don't have a clue about what you have written
AA IS the largest US airline and was at the time the merger was completed. No one has countered otherwise.
they don't have to get back to anything.
In LAX, they never lost the #1 title even with the mergers that involved DL and UA. AA has a long history in LAX while UA's strength was in SFO. Western gave DL a larger presence in the west but it still wasn't enough to overtake AA and the WA/DL merger was part of a series of mergers involving the west coast.
AA IS the largest US airline and was at the time the merger was completed. No one has countered otherwise.
they don't have to get back to anything.
In LAX, they never lost the #1 title even with the mergers that involved DL and UA. AA has a long history in LAX while UA's strength was in SFO. Western gave DL a larger presence in the west but it still wasn't enough to overtake AA and the WA/DL merger was part of a series of mergers involving the west coast.
LD3
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Corn Field
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the only spinning is from those who can't admit that AA has not been LESS than #1 at LAX in a long time in the LAX local market and that the merger had nothing to do with AA's position.
However, AA is consummating its own merger just in time so that DL cannot pass it up because on a standalone basis, DL has already passed up standalone AA.
It isn't "helped in part by its merger;" it is entirely because of the merger that AA has RETAINED its number one position at LAX among the big 3.
but it never lost it so there was nothing to regain.
The spinning comes from those who try to spread the myth that AA overtook DL or UA at LAX; they simply did not.
relative to size, the only change in relative position has been that DL moved ahead of UA and it took place long after both carriers emerged from BK.
FWAAA and others who are worried about childish behavior should be jumping up and down trying to cut thru the games and get to the facts of this thread - which is that nothing has changed.
However, AA is consummating its own merger just in time so that DL cannot pass it up because on a standalone basis, DL has already passed up standalone AA.
It isn't "helped in part by its merger;" it is entirely because of the merger that AA has RETAINED its number one position at LAX among the big 3.
but it never lost it so there was nothing to regain.
The spinning comes from those who try to spread the myth that AA overtook DL or UA at LAX; they simply did not.
relative to size, the only change in relative position has been that DL moved ahead of UA and it took place long after both carriers emerged from BK.
FWAAA and others who are worried about childish behavior should be jumping up and down trying to cut thru the games and get to the facts of this thread - which is that nothing has changed.
Not really - folks have said AA got to #1 through the the merger in LA - then one poster changed the yard stick and said the important metric in LA was international traffic, then it was international traffic with JV's for one airline but not the other, then when things don't prove accurate for ones view in LA we switch to NY
It's not that folks won't debate the topic its they won't debate a topic on a moving scale
It's not that folks won't debate the topic its they won't debate a topic on a moving scale
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
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it doesn't matter what metric to refer to LAX as a whole is used. AA was larger than DL and UA in total at LAX for quite some time.
DL has been the largest int'l carrier because DL has focused its assets on serving the largest markets and is dominant in the US to Japan market where there is a higher percentage of local passengers per flight than there is to some other destinations; whether that changes with the additional flights that AA has added will be seen in time.
Í truly have to scratch my head how bad some of you want to argue when **I** am the one saying that AA was and is #1 and you would rather argue than accept that statement.
DL has been the largest int'l carrier because DL has focused its assets on serving the largest markets and is dominant in the US to Japan market where there is a higher percentage of local passengers per flight than there is to some other destinations; whether that changes with the additional flights that AA has added will be seen in time.
Í truly have to scratch my head how bad some of you want to argue when **I** am the one saying that AA was and is #1 and you would rather argue than accept that statement.
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