American Airlines pilot union chief: We asked too much, put too many items on the table
- Thread starter B737NG
- Start date
Interesting. Hunter and Hill were both clearly in over their heads, from the demand for a 30.5% raise plus other bonuses that would have increased AA's pilot costs by over 50% to the opposition to the AA/BA/IB ATI application.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/05/03/us-amr-pilots-idUSN0330530820070503
http://www.pegasusnews.com/news/2007/may/03/allied-pilots-association-issues-its-non-variable-/
Didn't realize that the APA had placed hundreds of items in its opener - that makes no sense.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/05/03/us-amr-pilots-idUSN0330530820070503
http://www.pegasusnews.com/news/2007/may/03/allied-pilots-association-issues-its-non-variable-/
Didn't realize that the APA had placed hundreds of items in its opener - that makes no sense.
Hey Cio you ask me what a professional negotiater was and said that the APA didn't even use one seems they have seen the error of their ways.
maybe you could ask all your friends at the APA what a professional negotiater is and why they think they now need one or two!!!
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
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good for the APA... There is no negotiation if the list is so long that it can't possibly be dealt with, if there is a mindset to "getting what we want regardless of the cost", and if there is no recognition of the needs the company has to maintain some level of competitiveness.
I still am more optimistic that AA/APA can break the logjam in labor/mgmt relationsihps under the present APA leadership than I have been in a long time.
I still am more optimistic that AA/APA can break the logjam in labor/mgmt relationsihps under the present APA leadership than I have been in a long time.
eolesen
Veteran
- Jul 23, 2003
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Just in case some of you are still wondering why there's no impasse with the APFA or TWU:
Can anyone see where those same comments might very well apply to the TWU or APFA?
Please resist the urge to turn this into a "well management isn't bargaining in good faith" ####-fest. They bear their own fair share of the blame for why labor relations are the way they are, but I'm more curious about thoughts on the comments directed at the APA by the NMB.
I'd really like to see some serious thought and answers on whether or not there might be some similar reasons behind why negotiations are stalled with the APFA & TWU.
Can anyone see where those same comments might very well apply to the TWU or APFA?
Please resist the urge to turn this into a "well management isn't bargaining in good faith" ####-fest. They bear their own fair share of the blame for why labor relations are the way they are, but I'm more curious about thoughts on the comments directed at the APA by the NMB.
I'd really like to see some serious thought and answers on whether or not there might be some similar reasons behind why negotiations are stalled with the APFA & TWU.
Ken MacTiernan
Veteran
Honestly Eric, the twu is stuck between a rock and a hard place. The twu has run out of items to pull from their bag of tricks. The company wanted the second half of their "Vermont Plan" with the recently voted down t/a which the twu peddled. (For all the twu faithful who deny this I say grow a set.) The t/a was shot down. The twu represents the rampers and they are pisssed off. The twu is being threatened with a democratic union, AMP, and the twu is dumbfounded. Do they continue to cow tow to the company and anger the membership further driving the nails into the box the twu has stepped into? Or do they fight for what UPS/SOUTHWEST/FEDEX AMTs make and lose favor with those who consider labor 'Bricks" plus allienating the rampers?
If there's an impasse it is because the twu is allowing an impasse. Unlike the pilots AMTs aren't asking for the moon. We want what is owed us pure and simple. An impasse allows the company to continue to save millions of dollars each day and it gives the twu that much longer to squirm and try and figure out how to extricate themselves from losing our craft and class at AA.
AANOTOK
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- Oct 10, 2009
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Can't speak for APFA, or the mechanics for that matter. But as you well know E, Fleet had a tentative agreement and then withdrew it. If you go to AA's negotiation website you will see that the company is showing all articles agreed upon. In their eyes and I would assume in the NMB's eyes, we have a "tentative" agreement. What I see happening is our boys having one more meeting with both and the agreement they say we have will be brought back for a vote. The problem I have is the NMB is taking it upon themselves to hurt the membership while proving a point to the leadership. I personally think they are overstepping their boundaries and should get the two sides together instead of trying to establish some form of punishment at our expense.
eolesen
Veteran
- Jul 23, 2003
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Do you both feel that the respective negotiating committees are empowered enough to speak for the membership, and not the international?
The M&R TA being rejected, and the Fleet TA being pulled might indicate otherwise. How does a TA that was clearly offensive to so many get to the point of a vote? You don't go thru all that time & expense just to check the temperature & mood of the membership....
Do you feel that there's clearly anyone in charge?
The M&R TA being rejected, and the Fleet TA being pulled might indicate otherwise. How does a TA that was clearly offensive to so many get to the point of a vote? You don't go thru all that time & expense just to check the temperature & mood of the membership....
Do you feel that there's clearly anyone in charge?
upsilon
Senior
- Aug 20, 2002
- 372
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APFA is being accused of the same tactics in this letter from FA Rock Salomon to APFA President Laura Gladding.
Can't speak for the TWU or APA but as of today the APFA has never share with the membership what it is asking in these negotiations. We have no idea what the union proposals are. All they tell us is that they won't accept a concessionary contract but we have no idea what they are asking for.
xUT
Veteran
I hope they remember they can only squeeze the goose as not to kill it as ALPO did with Untied.
BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!
Remember, you can't eat stock!!!!
B) xUT
jersey777
Veteran
- May 24, 2006
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Rock Solomon is an opportunist and will do anything to criticize the APFA and Laura Glading. He consistently runs for union office and fails to get elected because the membership sees him as a person not worthy of any leadership role. He has cost the APFA millions of dollars defending his lawsuit against the union regarding the 2003 restructuring agreement. Any assertion that he makes is meaningless and is based on sour grapes. The APFA has never specified contract proposals to the membership because items are so fluid at the negotiating table and publishing specific items only creates false expectations from the membership.
Sounds like the current APA Leadership has read and understood Sun Tzu's, "Art of War."
Sun Tzu: The Art of War
"18. All warfare is based on deception.
19. Hence, when able to attack, we must seem unable;
when using our forces, we must seem inactive; when we
are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away;
when far away, we must make him believe we are near."
BRAVO ZULU APA: No Balls, No Air Medals.
Sun Tzu: The Art of War
"18. All warfare is based on deception.
19. Hence, when able to attack, we must seem unable;
when using our forces, we must seem inactive; when we
are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away;
when far away, we must make him believe we are near."
BRAVO ZULU APA: No Balls, No Air Medals.
Imjustsayin
Advanced
- Jul 9, 2010
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I don't who Rock is but......"Fluid"? Kinda implies movement. From what I've read APFA isn't moving and that's why there are no more negotiations dates scheduled. Anyone got a mirror handy?
jersey777
Veteran
- May 24, 2006
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Ok....are you going to be another management lackey that makes anti-union posts without any facts to support your position? Maybe all you have read is what American Airlines has posted on their negotiations website but no one knows what has transpired at the negotiations table over the last 3 years. In fact the only items made public by BOTH sides are those items which have been agreed upon. There was no movement at the last session because the company simply moved items around and has not come off their zero sum policy. The APFA has made is clear that zero sum will not fly and THAT is why there is a stalemate. Those are the facts dude...just sayin.
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