American no longer in FAA safety program

[skipfly]

You appear to not have the slightest grasp of reality regarding this issue. Look at the bright side. The good news is that your credibility has nowhere to go but up.

No problem with anything I typed, it is dead nuts. My credibility? These are the facts, without any spin from either side. You guys obviously are getting one side of the spin. I'm sure somebody within the flight ASAP will tell the truth at some point.

Like I said, both sides are to blame and have distorted what really went down. Believe what you want, chalk it up to another keyboard commando! Better yet, go ask the ASAP guy! <_<

 

[Mach85ER]

No problem with anything I typed, it is dead nuts. My credibility? These are the facts, without any spin from either side. You guys obviously are getting one side of the spin. I'm sure somebody within the flight ASAP will tell the truth at some point.

Like I said, both sides are to blame and have distorted what really went down. Believe what you want, chalk it up to another keyboard commando! Better yet, go ask the ASAP guy! <_<

skipfly,

My post was directed at FrequentFlierCA. You obviously are much better informed about the issue. I disagree about where the fault lies.

regards

 

[skipfly]

skipfly,

My post was directed at FrequentFlierCA. You obviously are much better informed about the issue. I disagree about where the fault lies.

regards

My apologies, long day! I will reply more accurately next time.

 

[Bob Owens]

Recent incidences may be causing cracks to appear in the M&E program as well now that the FAA is taking a more agressive approach.

 

[skipfly]

Recent incidences may be causing cracks to appear in the M&E program as well now that the FAA is taking a more agressive approach.

What incidents? Seems like the M&E Program is better than ever.

 

[frontline]

You guys are drinking some tainted kool aid if you think the pilots don't share the blame in American pulling out of ASAP.

 

[upsilon]

According to Plane Buzz, AA and APA have "come to terms ..... on a new Aviation Safety Action Program (ASAP) participation agreement.

 

[Winglet]

You guys are drinking some tainted kool aid if you think the pilots don't share the blame in American pulling out of ASAP.

Absolutely, but blame isn't the right word to associate with the pilots. Should read more like: ". . . if you think the pilots aren't the ones that pulled-out of the ASAP program." AA tried to turn the program into a management "JUST CULTURE" hammer and the pilots told them they'd rather not have ANY program and to shove "JUST CULTURE" where the sun don't shine. "JUST" and AA management are words that are polar opposites.

Funny how a couple of weeks before a major FAA safety inspection that AA management finally capitulates and removes ALL reference to the so-called "JUST CULTURE" sham and that the program returns to substantially like it was intended.

 

[Observer]

Absolutely, but blame isn't the right word to associate with the pilots. Should read more like: ". . . if you think the pilots aren't the ones that pulled-out of the ASAP program." AA tried to turn the program into a management "JUST CULTURE" hammer and the pilots told them they'd rather not have ANY program and to shove "JUST CULTURE" where the sun don't shine. "JUST" and AA management are words that are polar opposites.

Funny how a couple of weeks before a major FAA safety inspection that AA management finally capitulates and removes ALL reference to the so-called "JUST CULTURE" sham and that the program returns to substantially like it was intended.

wasn't it the father of ASAP, Captain Scott Griffith, and the director of safety, if I recall, who now touts the "just culture" syndrome? and didn't the Pilot ASAP always have some reference to possible discipline in it from the gitgo, but the M&E ASAP never had a discipline proviso ever? As I also recall the VP of Flight at the time of the beginning of the flight ASAP program mentioning that he would never allow a pilot to get even a CR-1. The ASAP pprogram was a casualty of labor negotiations, which should have never happened. When you have boulders being thrown back and forth who has time to talk ASAP when all you can do is duck your head.

 

[frontline]

What I think is funny is how right after the APA board censures the arrogant Captain Hill they come to a new agreement on this. His strategy of being as belligerent as possible obviously wasn't working so the board put a stop to it and voila - new ASAP agreement. Hmmm, coincidence...

 

[Mach85ER]

What I think is funny is how right after the APA board censures the arrogant Captain Hill they come to a new agreement on this. His strategy of being as belligerent as possible obviously wasn't working so the board put a stop to it and voila - new ASAP agreement. Hmmm, coincidence...

Not really. It may fit in with your little fantasy, but it probably has more to do with a new administration, along with the FAA, who were both getting tired of one of the parties involved (other than APA). The Bush FAA guy used exceptionally strong language about the failure to agree last year. AA had zero incentive to negotiate until the "new Sheriff" got settled. During that time, they tried to get the pilots to agree to new ASAP, with various minor changes of their onerous proposal.

Now that the "new guys" at the DOT have settled in, AA suddenly agrees to everything the APA pilots wanted, including the elimination of the ridiculous "Just Culture" plan. You might have a more vaild point if APA caved on the deal after Hill was censured. You make little sense after what just really happened. It's more of a coincindence that the FAA started a major audit of AA.

We'll see if negotiations on the contract issues move along. You might have a valid point regarding Hill if that takes place.

Safety will be improved with the ASAP in place.