AMFA at AA- consolidated thread

[1AA]

Anomaly you really need to stop with the comical responses.
Are you really a AMT? Do you even care about the profession?
I noticed you selectively describe what is outsourcing. If AMFA does it it's outsourcing. If any one else does it you give it a different name. You are obvious a IBT stooge of some kind because no AMT in his right mind would make those kind of comments unless he has an agenda outside of his profession. So when AMFA acted alone at SWA they got back two lines of work that under the IBT was not able or gave away.
Here at AA we outsourced as well. Over the past 15 plus years we have lost mainline flying to Eagle. Jobs lost to outsourcing. AA pilots where either furloughed or had to downgrade because of this. That is outsourcing. What would you call it? Operational adjustments? Your posts of late have shown signs of desperation. You post repetitive examples of non relevant information, You defend the worthless IBT. The IBT has more outsourcing than any other carrier it represents or represented in the past. The IBT just like the TWU does not fight to keep work in house at any level. They cut deals and sugar coat their reasons why. Just like the IBT. I am a AMT and dedicated to my profession and safety of my work. I have done this under the TWU for almost thirty years. I will continue to do this no matter which union we have because the responsibility lies 100% on my shoulders. So in your opinion does that make me a TWU koolaid drinker or a AMFA koolaid drinker or a AA koolaid drinker? If a vote comes our way here at AA I will NOT vote for the IBT. I will WRITE IN AMFA!
That must threaten you over at UAL for some reason. No relevance unless your sucking up to push for IBT at all airlines for personal and not professional reasons.

Are you really a dedicated AMT to your profession?

 

[Vortilon]

It's not a party until my brother Teamster shows up.

Outsourcing flying is not at all the same as outsourcing jobs. Are you trying to tell me that at some point on some route a United pilot can step off the plane and the company has an option to insert a vendor pilot? How about a flight attendant? If a FA does not show or is late for a flight can a vendor supply a replacement to operate the lagging flight? OF COURSE NOT.

But with all of our airlines, all mechanics, even the line mechanics, can be replaced at any time. What protects us is our contracts negotiated from our respective unions. The craft only union is of ZERO consequence because our craft has been weakened by the availability of so many vendors. While the number of new A&P mechanics entering the trade may in fact be down, I would not count on that to save my future.

The point is very simple. There are no VENDOR pilots who fly any of your respective carriers aircraft, but we all have vendors who perform maintenance on these exact same planes. Using this tiny bit of revelation, someone explain how a mechanics ONLY craft union can provide any REAL benefit. Please spare me the amfa constitution mumbo jumbo.

We need a real union that is willing to do more than just spew rhetorical mish mash about a constitution and single craft association. amfa has already proven that they are worthless when acting alone.



You sold out on your former ramp buddies, now you sold out on maintenance overhaul and all hangar work.. We know you you are looking out for. Spoken like a true amfa follower. Always out for number one.



Right back at you xUT. At least YOU give me a good laugh.



I have been attacking the amfa lie infested rhetoric since I first came across this blog site. I have worn down most of you at one time or another and through it all.... I am still here. My Warthog is a fair description of what I am doing. Thank you for noticing.

Worn who down? A lot of us have been at this since "The Mechanic.Com" days. At this point, you really are just what your screen name is - a simple "Anomaly". BTW no self respecting AMT would be attacking the AMFA for any reason other than for personal gain within a communist type union like the IBT or TWU! Either that, or you're not an AMT as 1AA points out. My money is on the fact that you're a sell out to the profession - for your own selfish IBT interests!

 

[xUT]

Right back at you xUT. At least YOU give me a good laugh.

Just doing my part..
Luv U Man!
Keep up the Razzle Dazzle, It's hilarious...

B) xUT

 

[Anomaly]

Just doing my part..
Luv U Man!
Keep up the Razzle Dazzle, It's hilarious...

B) xUT

Awww, come on man.... you used this one on me already.

New material please.

 

[TRAVIS]

stooge

AMFA STOOGE LOL!

View attachment 9816

 

[1AA]

AMFA STOOGE LOL!

View attachment 9816

Oh that hurt my feelings.

Typical childish paid teamsters supporter. Now your resorting to childish postings. No intelligence on debating your position. Keep up the good work in supporting the teamsters. If this is how you contribute intelligent information, then your point has been proven. What is your point? Grow up will you.

 

[TRAVIS]

Oh that hurt my feelings.

sorry 1AA did not want to hurt your feelings. I guess my sense of humor is different that yours. I thought it was funny...

Have A Nice IBT Day.

 

[swamt]

WRITE-IN AMFA!!!

 

[Bob Owens]

It's not a party until my brother Teamster shows up.

Outsourcing flying is not at all the same as outsourcing jobs. Are you trying to tell me that at some point on some route a United pilot can step off the plane and the company has an option to insert a vendor pilot? How about a flight attendant? If a FA does not show or is late for a flight can a vendor supply a replacement to operate the lagging flight? OF COURSE NOT.

Wrong. At AA they already do outsource FA jobs on some foreign trips. What stops them from outsourcing pilots jobs? Delta was doing it for years flying foreign FAs on Delta trips and equipment.. The CONTRACT. Absent language they can outsource pilots jobs as well, the only jobs that I know of that can not be outsourced are dispatchers. Mechanics can fight for similar language if they want.

Peoples Express was the last major carrier I know of that outsourced all their maintenance, and it was a disaster. It became known as "Peoples Distress".

Keep selling your fear, the fact is that workers had to do certain things to get the things we are losing because the Union leadership wont face the fact that those same things have to be done to keep what those who came before us fought for. A million TEAMSTER members aren't going to make any more of a difference in an airline dispute than they did in the Overnight Trucking dispute. We would do better by aligning ourselves with Pilots, Flight Attendants, Stock Clerks and Baggage Handlers, than counting on a million truck drivers, zoo keepers, and pretty much anyone who will sign an IBT card to help us gain leverage on our employer. Sometimes things are in your favor, sometimes they aren't, with an Industry-wide shortage of mechanics and an elderly workforce things are in our favor now but the Unions are not willing to exploit it.

Outsourcing flying is not the same as outsourcing jobs? Really? Pilots may disagree.

 

[Bob Owens]

You sold out on your former ramp buddies, now you sold out on maintenance overhaul and all hangar work..

Like UPS? Like CAL? Pot calling the kettle black?

 

[xUT]

Awww, come on man.... you used this one on me already.

New material please.

That's funny... I was thinking the exact same thing about your posts...

Give us new material...

Wash, Rinse and repeat.
Keep up the razzle dazzle, it's hilarious!
B) xUT

 

[Anomaly]

Wrong. At AA they already do outsource FA jobs on some foreign trips. What stops them from outsourcing pilots jobs? Delta was doing it for years flying foreign FAs on Delta trips and equipment.. The CONTRACT. Absent language they can outsource pilots jobs as well, the only jobs that I know of that can not be outsourced are dispatchers. Mechanics can fight for similar language if they want.

Peoples Express was the last major carrier I know of that outsourced all their maintenance, and it was a disaster. It became known as "Peoples Distress".

Keep selling your fear, the fact is that workers had to do certain things to get the things we are losing because the Union leadership wont face the fact that those same things have to be done to keep what those who came before us fought for. A million TEAMSTER members aren't going to make any more of a difference in an airline dispute than they did in the Overnight Trucking dispute. We would do better by aligning ourselves with Pilots, Flight Attendants, Stock Clerks and Baggage Handlers, than counting on a million truck drivers, zoo keepers, and pretty much anyone who will sign an IBT card to help us gain leverage on our employer. Sometimes things are in your favor, sometimes they aren't, with an Industry-wide shortage of mechanics and an elderly workforce things are in our favor now but the Unions are not willing to exploit it.

Outsourcing flying is not the same as outsourcing jobs? Really? Pilots may disagree.

You are not a stupid man, but you are happy to be on the soap box. In politics it is a wise tactic to answer the question you wished was asked rather than address the point of the original subject.

It's not a party until my brother Teamster shows up.

Outsourcing flying is not at all the same as outsourcing jobs. Are you trying to tell me that at some point on some route a United pilot can step off the plane and the company has an option to insert a vendor pilot? How about a flight attendant? If a FA does not show or is late for a flight can a vendor supply a replacement to operate the lagging flight? OF COURSE NOT.

But with all of our airlines, all mechanics, even the line mechanics, can be replaced at any time. What protects us is our contracts negotiated from our respective unions. The craft only union is of ZERO consequence because our craft has been weakened by the availability of so many vendors. While the number of new A&P mechanics entering the trade may in fact be down, I would not count on that to save my future.

The point is very simple. There are no VENDOR pilots who fly any of your respective carriers aircraft, but we all have vendors who perform maintenance on these exact same planes. Using this tiny bit of revelation, someone explain how a mechanics ONLY craft union can provide any REAL benefit. Please spare me the amfa constitution mumbo jumbo.

The subject was the strength of a craft union when there is a readily available supply of those who can step in to do our jobs. Unlike pilots, the vendors have weakened much of the strength mechanics held in this industry. Consider how strong airline mechanics were before it became so simple to farm out our work? If replacement mechanics were not so readily available, thanks to the MRO's, would the mechanics strike at NWA been more of a success? Even I think the answer would have been YES. This more than anything else should show how out of date and out of touch the association is to real mechanic issues. But amfa tried to negotiate this endeavor on their own shouting that the strength of their single craft would drive the company to their knees. That did not work out so well did it?

We as mechanics simply do not have the strength in a single craft that the pilots do. Not anymore. Because I have the ability to recognize our limitations does not make me less of a mechanic, it just means I can realize reality. Take a look at this firm that supplies replacement workers. See any pilots or even flight attendants on this page?

http://modernstaffingandsecurity.com/staffing.php

How many firms helped NWA find replacement aircraft mechanics of all types? They did this openly with no challenge by amfa at all.

I am in no way suggesting we roll over and play dead because of the ever increasing MRO's. But at the same time, the go it alone attitude of amfa is an antiquated idea with no chance of success. Like it or not, a strong industrial union like the Teamsters has proven to be the best choice for mechanics. We have gained at UA since we abandoned the craft union rhetoric.

 

[TWU informer]

You are not a stupid man, but you are happy to be on the soap box. In politics it is a wise tactic to answer the question you wished was asked rather than address the point of the original subject.



The subject was the strength of a craft union when there is a readily available supply of those who can step in to do our jobs. Unlike pilots, the vendors have weakened much of the strength mechanics held in this industry. Consider how strong airline mechanics were before it became so simple to farm out our work? If replacement mechanics were not so readily available, thanks to the MRO's, would the mechanics strike at NWA been more of a success? Even I think the answer would have been YES. This more than anything else should show how out of date and out of touch the association is to real mechanic issues. But amfa tried to negotiate this endeavor on their own shouting that the strength of their single craft would drive the company to their knees. That did not work out so well did it?

We as mechanics simply do not have the strength in a single craft that the pilots do. Not anymore. Because I have the ability to recognize our limitations does not make me less of a mechanic, it just means I can realize reality. Take a look at this firm that supplies replacement workers. See any pilots or even flight attendants on this page?

http://modernstaffin.../staffing.php

How many firms helped NWA find replacement aircraft mechanics of all types? They did this openly with no challenge by amfa at all.

I am in no way suggesting we roll over and play dead because of the ever increasing MRO's. But at the same time, the go it alone attitude of amfa is an antiquated idea with no chance of success. Like it or not, a strong industrial union like the Teamsters has proven to be the best choice for mechanics. We have gained at UA since we abandoned the craft union rhetoric.

You sound defeated, without a plan except continue to give concessions out of fear. That is the Union we already have, why go to another version only to pay more dues? The AMFA idea has never been to go it alone, it has always been ALL MECHANiCS in one MECHANICS UNION. You are so ate up with fear and being paid to support the IBT that you just cannot hear or see the facts.

 

[Anomaly]

You sound defeated, without a plan except continue to give concessions out of fear. That is the Union we already have, why go to another version only to pay more dues? The AMFA idea has never been to go it alone, it has always been ALL MECHANiCS in one MECHANICS UNION. You are so ate up with fear and being paid to support the IBT that you just cannot hear or see the facts.

You follow the amfa idea like cult members repeating those phrases that keep you all in line as you march to certain doom. "All mechanics in one mechanics union", offers ZERO benefit other than to keep you all on your quest for what whatever can stroke your already inflated egos.

Look at all the airlines that amfa, the single mechanics union, has lost. Not a single one of these airline groups left better than they were before amfa. Many were much worse because of the association. For you however, it appears that selecting an all mechanic executive board is more important than having a job. At UA, we decided after nearly 5 years under amfa that job protection, good pay, and increased benefits was more important than a mechanic constitution and the "I am better than you" rhetoric.

 

[swamt]

You follow the amfa idea like cult members repeating those phrases that keep you all in line as you march to certain doom. "All mechanics in one mechanics union", offers ZERO benefit other than to keep you all on your quest for what whatever can stroke your already inflated egos.

Look at all the airlines that amfa, the single mechanics union, has lost. Not a single one of these airline groups left better than they were before amfa. Many were much worse because of the association. For you however, it appears that selecting an all mechanic executive board is more important than having a job. At UA, we decided after nearly 5 years under amfa that job protection, good pay, and increased benefits was more important than a mechanic constitution and the "I am better than you" rhetoric.

I will give you 4 airlines that were better off after AMFA came on board. And as always you will turn all of them around with some sort of spin to try and make it look very different. 1-NWA was much, much better off after AMFA showed up, they set the industry standard to an all new "level" of pay and bennies. 2-Independence air was also better off after AMFA came in. 3 and 4 are SWA and Alaska which to this day are still doing way better off than before AMFA came to each carrier. Let the spinning begin. BTW: Don't forget to "WRITE-IN AMFA" if you get a ballot... Happy 4th to all.