AMR offers to merge seniority lists

[will fix for food]

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On 1/25/2003 9:27:32 PM RV4 wrote:

"I doubt there could be a successful lawsuit if you were given full seniority integration and still RIF'd out."


I agree.


"What if AA sells Executive, Merges the remainder of Eagle, then uses funding from sell of Executive to enter agreements for more RJ's?"


That sounds like a winning plan from an AMR standpoint. Although from a pilot's standpoint it might not work as it seems that the thrust of all this mess is to eliminate code share commuters and Executive would have to remain in that position to feed SJU.
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[AC AA LA FA]

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"The fact that AMR wants to talk about combining the airlines is significant because it's a new position for them," said James Magee, a spokesman for the Air Line Pilots Association chapter representing the Eagle pilots.

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The only proposal I've heard about is merging the seniority lists, and not the two airlines.

Just FYI...per APA/APFA contract that all flying done by APA will be staffed with APFA F/As...

 

[FA Mikey]

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On 1/26/2003 8:06:48 PM AC AA LA FA wrote:


Just FYI...per APA/APFA contract that all flying done by APA will be staffed with APFA F/As...
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Where is that written?

 

[TWAFA007]

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On 1/25/2003 6:33:33 PM Buck wrote:

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So it should be a breeze to combine the Flight Attendants and the Ground personal?
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Aloha,

It would be great if they merge the Eagle F/As. APFA has set a precedent of stumping, I meaning stapling any and all fellow F/As. Who cares about other Unions. That would put over 1000 F/As under TWA F/As and maybe some of them could get back to work after all the Eagle F/As are furloughed. What would happen to the F/As over 5' 10" though?

ALOHA, 007

 

[FA Mikey]

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On 1/27/2003 8:31:33 PM TWAFA007 wrote:

Aloha,

It would be great if they merge the Eagle F/As. APFA has set a precedent of stumping, I meaning stapling any and all fellow F/As. Who cares about other Unions. That would put over 1000 F/As under TWA F/As and maybe some of them could get back to work after all the Eagle F/As are furloughed. What would happen to the F/As over 5' 10" though?

ALOHA, 007

[/blockquote]

Every AE flight attendant that came in to the ranks of AA had to start at the bottom of the seniority list. But unlike the TW folks who got PAY seniority AE and company transfers got nothing. The pattern of starting at the bottom was started long before TW.

 

[Veritas]

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On 1/27/2003 10:52:05 PM FA Mikey wrote:

Every AE flight attendant that came in to the ranks of AA had to start at the bottom of the seniority list. But unlike the TW folks who got PAY seniority AE and company transfers got nothing. The pattern of starting at the bottom was started long before TW.
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Will you ever get it through your thick skull that there is a difference between combining two airlines and individuals moving on their own from one company to the other (even if both are owned by the same entity)?

 

[FA Mikey]

There is no difference. TW employees were offered employment at AA just like anyone who applied to work here. Like every new hire like every company transfer, asset purchase people get to start at the same place we all did. AT the bottom.

 

[Oliver Stone''s Apprentice]

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On 1/27/2003 11:36:05 PM AA D2 TW SP wrote:

Will you [FA Mikey] ever get it through your thick skull that there is a difference between combining two airlines and individuals moving on their own from one company to the other (even if both are owned by the same entity)?
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Mikey's not talking about moving from company to company or subsidiary to subsidiary. He's referring to moving within the same company.

I've got almost 14 years with AA. If my job were eliminated tomorrow and I opted to fill a fleet service clerk or flight attendant vacancy (hypothetical at this point, OK??) starting tomorrow, my pay and bidding seniority would be based off of tomorrow's date, and not my 1989 date of hire.

As much as it sucks, that's how I would be treated in that situation.

 

[L1011Ret]

About 40% of the pilots were ratioed in the seniority list. The rest stapled at the bottom. Various parts of the IAM represented people got 25% or 100% April 2001 DOH. Other work groups fared differently. The idea that everyone goes to the bottom does not pass a minimal truth test.

 

[TWAnr]

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On 1/28/2003 9:34:50 AM eolesen wrote:

Mikey's not talking about moving from company to company or subsidiary to subsidiary. He's referring to moving within the same company.

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No, Eric, with al due respect, you are wrong in this instance. Mikey was referring to AE employees transferring or moving on to AA.


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On 1/27/2003 10:52:05 PM FA Mikey wrote:

Every AE flight attendant that came in to the ranks of AA had to start at the bottom of the seniority list. But unlike the TW folks who got PAY seniority AE and company transfers got nothing. The pattern of starting at the bottom was started long before TW.
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Mikey has a long history of ignoring the fact that this assets acquisition is indeed a merger in the eyes of the law, as defined by the Allegheny Mohawk ruling of the Civil Aviation Board. The represented employees who came along, as a condition of the assets purchase, are protected by that ruling. The TWA LLC employees cannot possibly be treated as individual employees who applied for jobs at AA on their own after their original carriers failed. He is still begrudging that as a company transfer he was denied pay and bidding seniority for the time which he worked at a different department at American Airlines. His view of the TWA purchase is jaundiced and he never misses an opportunity to complain about the TWAers’ pay and vacation seniority; items which affect neither his pay nor his line holding ability.

 

[twaokc]

TWAnr,

Do you ever feel like you are trying to explain something to a BRICK WALL???

 

[FA Mikey]

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On 1/28/2003 1:43:44 PM TWAnr wrote:


Mikey has a long history of ignoring the fact that this assets acquisition is indeed a merger in the eyes of the law, as defined by the Allegheny Mohawk ruling of the Civil Aviation Board. The represented employees who came along, as a condition of the assets purchase, are protected by that ruling. The TWA LLC employees cannot possibly be treated as individual employees who applied for jobs at AA on their own after their original carriers failed. He is still begrudging that as a company transfer he was denied pay and bidding seniority for the time which he worked at a different department at American Airlines. His view of the TWA purchase is jaundiced and he never misses an opportunity to complain about the TWAers’ pay and vacation seniority; items which affect neither his pay nor his line holding ability.
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It may be a merger in the eyes of the law. No where does the law say a union or work group must provide occupational seniority to the newly acquired people. CAB is dead and buried. Allegheny Mohawk was the merger of equal sized and valued carriers. This is not. The only protections the TW people had were freely given up.

I have never said, I deserve pay and seniority for my time being an intercompany transfer. That's what you keep trying to imply. My point is TW people may not have gotten occupational seniority, they more than made up for it in pay compensation.

 

[TWAFA007]

Aloha easy victor 1,

Welcome to the board. Very sorry to hear of your furlough. I hope you have learned from the TWA days to have a pretty good rainy day fund. As far as, "the court system will work its course to justice and whatever decision is made I will accept," I agree. I just hope the APFA and the AA F/As will accept the courts decision too. Good luck to you and your family. Lets just hope we will all be back to work soon.

ALOHA, 007

 

[easy victor1]

First of all I want to thank American Airlines and APFA for my job. I really appreciate my pay raise and my company seniority and ALL the industry leading work rules that I [we] inherited from APFA. Close to 2000 of us want to thank you as well.

On Jan 31...I along with a few hundred of my colleagues will be furloughed. I am a TWA 85 seniority and over 40. My neighbors daughter flying on the native side has less than two years. No furlough for her. She has no mortgage, no kid's to support..after all she is 24. I am so happy to save a Silver Winger a job.

The next round of furlough fodder will becoming from STL and will go to 79 or perhaps 78 seniority. I guess all my cohorts should be thankful to have a job.

Oh, before I forget I want to thank APFA for those fences. You know the ones that would fence us in to fly our TW routes. Those fences look pretty good. You are now flying our OGG, HNL, KOA, LGW, CUN and you also have the rights out of STL to operate CDG and FRA not to mention our never used NRT[img src='http://www.usaviation.com/idealbb/images/smilies/10.gif'] Oh..I forgot we brought nothing to AA.

For those AA natives who have been very nice to me on my commute trips and vacation trips. A sincere thank you. Some of you have had the dignity to tell us how unfair we have been treated. This was not said to me tongue in cheek.

The court system will work its course to justice and whatever decision is made I will accept.

As a full term striker, I wish I could say in UNITY...but I just cannot.

Mark
STL

 

[TWAFA007]

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On 1/28/2003 3:08:40 PM FA Mikey wrote:

My point is TW people may not have gotten occupational seniority, they more than made up for it in pay compensation.
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Aloha Mike,

Your right Mike occupational seniority is really no big deal. Its always all about the money. Isnt it. Try to tell the over 2000 TWA F/As that are on the streets how the pay compensation, "more than made up for it."

ALOHA, 007