AMR plans to imulate DELTA

[enough already]

Pres. Obama's comments last night on the state of the union about outsourcing could make it much more difficult politically for AA to dramatically cut TUL and ship shops out of the country.

Almost spit my coffee out on that one!! :-D
I'm sure they're shaking in their boots now...

 

[FWAAA]

Almost spit my coffee out on that one!! :-D
I'm sure they're shaking in their boots now...

I was hoping someone else caught that as I did spit out my coffee when I read it. No doubt Boehner and the other Republicans are busy drafting the bills that will impose heavy taxes on outsourcers just because Mr Unpopular President mentioned it in his State of the Union speech.

 

[WorldTraveler]

whether Obama succeeds at half of the stuff on his state of the union (which was a pretty lofty and idealistic list) is less significant in that he does hold a very powerful microphone in the country and does have the ability to shape national discussions.
When everyone was outsourcing several years ago, the political pressure was minimal... as with many things in AA's BK, they are now doing things the rest of the industry already did and is not attempting to change. There will be pressure on AA in many ways by being the only major carrier restructuring right now.

 

[commavia]

The comments from a generally unpopular President going into an election cycle that is going to be dominated by far more incendiary and outrageous comments about far more important national topics than airline outsourcing leads me to believe that - as others have said - AMR really could care less what Obama said his State of the Union.

If AA decides that they need to outsource overhauls in order to be competitive with all the other airlines that have already done it, there isn't a damn thing the President can or will do about it. He has bigger fish to fry at the moment. Whether any of us do or don't ultimately agree with the path AA decides to take, that's reality.

No different than how, no matter what the head of the PBGC says, he has very little influence over whether or not AA ultimately decides to terminate their pension plans. Again - when every one of their competitors has either frozen or dumped their plans, AA management may decide that it is worth it for them to do the same, and if they do, the rationale will no doubt far outweigh any negative comments from a bureaucrat.

But yeah, once again, it's always going to be harder and more complicated for AA than it ever has been or will be for Delta ... same old, same old ...

 

[strikeforce]

The comments from a generally unpopular President going into an election cycle that is going to be dominated by far more incendiary and outrageous comments about far more important national topics than airline outsourcing leads me to believe that - as others have said - AMR really could care less what Obama said his State of the Union.

If AA decides that they need to outsource overhauls in order to be competitive with all the other airlines that have already done it, there isn't a damn thing the President can or will do about it. He has bigger fish to fry at the moment. Whether any of us do or don't ultimately agree with the path AA decides to take, that's reality.

No different than how, no matter what the head of the PBGC says, he has very little influence over whether or not AA ultimately decides to terminate their pension plans. Again - when every one of their competitors has either frozen or dumped their plans, AA management may decide that it is worth it for them to do the same, and if they do, the rationale will no doubt far outweigh any negative comments from a bureaucrat.

But yeah, once again, it's always going to be harder and more complicated for AA than it ever has been or will be for Delta ... same old, same old ...

I just find it amusing that people on this forum expect a bankrupt AA to follow into the footsteps of another once bankrupt company or companies. It's hilarious!!!!!

 

[Flying low]

I just find it amusing that people on this forum expect a bankrupt AA to follow into the footsteps of another once bankrupt company or companies. It's hilarious!!!!!

What do you expect? Once a leader of the industry, now just a follower.

 

[strikeforce]

What do you expect? Once a leader of the industry, now just a follower.

I expect AA to follow Delta, UA, CO, and all the other BANKRUPT carriers to financial ruin and follow the likes of EA, Pan Am, and TWA. The Airline Industry has a failed business model that doesn't price the product adequately enough to make yearly profits. The only carrier that provides a simple model for air transportation is SWA. No frills, No IFE, No Nothing. Price reflects transportation from point A to point B, and nothing else. I find it hard to believe that other carriers wouldn't want to copy the only sucessful carrier in US History. The airline industry has been in complete chaos since the wright bros. and nothing will change going forward.

 

[Buck]

I expect AA to follow Delta, UA, CO, and all the other BANKRUPT carriers to financial ruin and follow the likes of EA, Pan Am, and TWA. The Airline Industry has a failed business model that doesn't price the product adequately enough to make yearly profits. The only carrier that provides a simple model for air transportation is SWA. No frills, No IFE, No Nothing. Price reflects transportation from point A to point B, and nothing else. I find it hard to believe that other carriers wouldn't want to copy the only sucessful carrier in US History. The airline industry has been in complete chaos since the wright bros. and nothing will change going forward.

Yes, but with the announcement of the new interiors at SWA, the no frills may go away. Also when aformer employer that worked Avionics here at TUL on 1D Dock, was hired by SWA he was asked about the same type of RETRO ( IFE ) we are doing.

 

[strikeforce]

Yes, but with the announcement of the new interiors at SWA, the no frills may go away. Also when aformer employer that worked Avionics here at TUL on 1D Dock, was hired by SWA he was asked about the same type of RETRO ( IFE ) we are doing.

You may want to go back and check out WN's new seats........I seen it on the USA Today last week and I certainly didn't see audio control panels on armrests or Seat Electronic boxes under the seat. Leather seats and very generic looking. NO IFE here, Buck!

 

[BoeingBoy]

WN could be thinking of future Hawaii (and longer) flights. I found it odd when WN went with Row44 for Wi-Fi while everyone else, even AS with service to HI and remote AK, went with GoGo. But Row44 has world-wide satellite-based service while GoGo is limited (for now) to the continental U.S. Put Row44 together with streaming IFE via Wi-Fi and WN is set for anywhere it could go.

Jim

 

[topDawg]

AA emulating Delta could the worst thing for the unions, Delta employee's keeps voting union organization down. How awesome would that be, making more money and not paying the juice to a union to have a job.

Yes because seeing 88s go to GDL, 757s going to SAT, 737s going to IND, 767s go to HKG having work done that was done in Atlanta, Tampa and Dallas now being done by someone who probably cant speak English, having the company form a "joint venture" that is adding jobs/hangar space in Mexico while we sit in in the US losing floor space not adding jobs and getting 4 weeks of vacation is just friggin AMAZING. :angry:

I would gladly give 100 a month for better QOL and lock down SCOPE.

 

[topDawg]

The AA-RR partnership says they are the only authorized overhaul facility for Trents in N. America... which means DL either could get authorized to support a fleet of 8 RR powered 777s (the rest are GE powered LRs) or contract out that maintenance (as they must do for the GE90 engines as part of the 777 contracts).
So, yes, DL contracts out what the work which they can get others to do cheaper while using DL facilities to bring in revenue through insourcing for work others want them to do - primarily "common engines" like the CFMs and PW2000s and 4000s.
According to DOT data and DL statements, they receive about $500M per year in insourcing revenue compared to a total maintenance bill for their own fleet of about $2B/year which means that DL achieves one of the highest percentage of insourcing revenue to its own maintenance costs of any major airline in the world.

yikes ok where to start.
1) Delta could do T800 and GE90 Overhauls if they wanted, they just don't want to.
2) Where do you get this babble that Delta MUST let GE do the 90 overhauls? I don't understand how Delta "has to" yet Air France, which IIRC has GE-90-94s and GE-90-115Bs does their own overhauls? Me thinks your just making crap up. 😉
We hit 650M+ in MRO rev. Everything from UPS CF6 overhauls to LAN 767 HMVs.

PS IMO If Delta(key word being IF) adds a *new* engine line it will be the V2500s, We will have 100+ engines and since it is an A320 engine also it has MRO potential. Right now we ship them to Europe....yes even with P&W having a shop in friggin Georgia.

 

[topDawg]

I understand what you are saying, however I still do not understand this concept of farming out your own aircraft only to use your own facilities and labor to perform third party maintenance. AA has had some engines here at TUL in the past but mainly for our Test Cells.

Let me help buck..

Our 737/757/767/M80/M90 HMVs are done by 3rd parties. Our GE90/T800*(you TESAL guys are welcom 😛 ) V2500s are sent out.
So far(at least that I know) all T7 stuff has been done in house but I'm not sure the older ERs have had to have HMVs yet our just a longer PSV. The idea was to dump the HMVs, shut down Dallas/Tampa back fill Atlanta with the non-cut work from those cities and fill the rest of the open space up with MRO. Now the plan is to move the HMVs to Mexico, done by a DAL/Aeromexico JV. This will be the 3rd vendor for HMVs. (and i hope it fails big time)

Anyways, I know someone said it could get ugly in Tulsa, I hope, for the industry, that you guys hold the line. If y'all dump HMVs they may never come back to the majors. You REALLY don't want to be like Delta. <_< (expect the MRO part, i'd shoot for that but the outsourcing to a Delta company in Mexico sucks.)


*note I have no friggin clue about the DLN side of the house. NW had a LOT of their work done outside, so I don't know if we have started doing the checks we do on the DLS fleet on those birds or not.*