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AMR Stock Trading

Buck

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I have a question for the brainiacs on the forums. What does the below statement mean and is it stating that as December 22, 2011 at 10:00 a.m. that the stock could be no longer tradable?


Any sale or other transfer in violation of the procedures set forth shall be null and void ab initio as an act in violation of the automatic stay under section 362 of the Bankruptcy Code. The AMR Stock Procedures and Claims Procedures have been approved by the Court as of November 30, 2011 via Interim Order and shall apply to holding and trading AMR Stock and holding and trading Claims. The Motion on the final order will be heard on December 22, 2011 at 10:00 a.m. (Eastern Time).
 
I have a question for the brainiacs on the forums. What does the below statement mean and is it stating that as December 22, 2011 at 10:00 a.m. that the stock could be no longer tradable?


Any sale or other transfer in violation of the procedures set forth shall be null and void ab initio as an act in violation of the automatic stay under section 362 of the Bankruptcy Code. The AMR Stock Procedures and Claims Procedures have been approved by the Court as of November 30, 2011 via Interim Order and shall apply to holding and trading AMR Stock and holding and trading Claims. The Motion on the final order will be heard on December 22, 2011 at 10:00 a.m. (Eastern Time).


my interpretation is: you and I are freakin ignorant and we must hire a lawyer toprotect us. Sorry. My guess is, if it could be translated into common English, it would mean: if you own AA stock, you are stuck with it. Lawyers are paid by the hour. the
longer they spend writing that and interpreting it, the wealthier they get. they are paid to argue the meaning of things afterall
 
I have a question for the brainiacs on the forums. What does the below statement mean and is it stating that as December 22, 2011 at 10:00 a.m. that the stock could be no longer tradable?

Any sale or other transfer in violation of the procedures set forth shall be null and void ab initio as an act in violation of the automatic stay under section 362 of the Bankruptcy Code. The AMR Stock Procedures and Claims Procedures have been approved by the Court as of November 30, 2011 via Interim Order and shall apply to holding and trading AMR Stock and holding and trading Claims. The Motion on the final order will be heard on December 22, 2011 at 10:00 a.m. (Eastern Time).

Buck, this is a standard restriction on the sale of huge blocks of stock (like 4.5% or more of the outstanding stock) of a bankrupt company designed to preserve the tax losses - it has nothing to do with smaller stockholders. AMR can be bought and sold by small fry until the stock is cancelled upon confirmation of a plan of reorganization. It will soon be delisted from the NYSE and will probably be tradable only via the pink sheets once that happens.
 
Buck, this is a standard restriction on the sale of huge blocks of stock (like 4.5% or more of the outstanding stock) of a bankrupt company designed to preserve the tax losses - it has nothing to do with smaller stockholders. AMR can be bought and sold by small fry until the stock is cancelled upon confirmation of a plan of reorganization. It will soon be delisted from the NYSE and will probably be tradable only via the pink sheets once that happens.
I woud like to hear your take on the issue of the smaller stock holder. Is there any certain point in the bankruptcy process that the share holder loses hs/her stock?

Also I have heard that in rare occasions that the company can transfer old shares to the new ticker and everything just continues.

AMR-QAMR etc....
 
I woud like to hear your take on the issue of the smaller stock holder. Is there any certain point in the bankruptcy process that the share holder loses hs/her stock?

Also I have heard that in rare occasions that the company can transfer old shares to the new ticker and everything just continues.

AMR-QAMR etc....

The old stock is gonna be canceled, probably the day the plan of reorganization is approved and the new stock is issued (which will be given to the various creditors who took a bath). That might not happen for a few months to a year from now, but the old AMR will eventually have a zero value - AMR has far too many debts for the common stockholders to get anything.

I seriously hope everyone was kidding about borrowing from their 401(k) accounts to buy AMR stock a couple of weeks ago, since the old AMR stock ain't gonna recover (exactly like I posted when I said it was too late and that BK was around the corner). The only similarity this process will have to 2003 are the concessions and job losses - without the stock price rise.
 
The old stock is gonna be canceled, probably the day the plan of reorganization is approved and the new stock is issued (which will be given to the various creditors who took a bath). That might not happen for a few months to a year from now, but the old AMR will eventually have a zero value - AMR has far too many debts for the common stockholders to get anything.

I seriously hope everyone was kidding about borrowing from their 401(k) accounts to buy AMR stock a couple of weeks ago, since the old AMR stock ain't gonna recover (exactly like I posted when I said it was too late and that BK was around the corner). The only similarity this process will have to 2003 are the concessions and job losses - without the stock price rise.
I put in a buy at $1.60 for 600 shares before the bankruptcy announcment. When it did not purchase after hours, I woke up the next morning with 600 shares at $0.20. So not I have to guess when the appropriate time to sell.
 
The old stock is gonna be canceled, probably the day the plan of reorganization is approved and the new stock is issued (which will be given to the various creditors who took a bath). That might not happen for a few months to a year from now, but the old AMR will eventually have a zero value - AMR has far too many debts for the common stockholders to get anything.

I seriously hope everyone was kidding about borrowing from their 401(k) accounts to buy AMR stock a couple of weeks ago, since the old AMR stock ain't gonna recover (exactly like I posted when I said it was too late and that BK was around the corner). The only similarity this process will have to 2003 are the concessions and job losses - without the stock price rise.

Believe it or not, many people in UA did exactly that (along with their ESOP shares).
UA was too big to fail...
Lost their a$$
 
Believe it or not, many people in UA did exactly that (along with their ESOP shares).
UA was too big to fail...
Lost their a$$
Just as I expect to do unless I am lucky, but I only laid out $128.00.
 
Get out of it as soon as you can break even on your brokerage costs...
 
I wonder how greedy I am?
Our friend eolsen gave the safe course - put in a sale order at a price that will cover your transaction costs and get out even. That should be pretty easy to do.

If you want to gamble on losing your $128 + brokerage commission, you could put in a sale order for 50-80 cents and hope to make a 150-300% profit (less brokerage commissions). Even in bankruptcy the stock price will bounce around with economic/industry/AA news as traders try to make a quick profit. But at some point (as yet undetermined) when bankruptcy exit is within a month or two the stock will start it's final decline toward $0 as even the traders start staying away.

Jim
 
Our friend eolsen gave the safe course - put in a sale order at a price that will cover your transaction costs and get out even. That should be pretty easy to do.

If you want to gamble on losing your $128 + brokerage commission, you could put in a sale order for 50-80 cents and hope to make a 150-300% profit (less brokerage commissions). Even in bankruptcy the stock price will bounce around with economic/industry/AA news as traders try to make a quick profit. But at some point (as yet undetermined) when bankruptcy exit is within a month or two the stock will start it's final decline toward $0 as even the traders start staying away.

Jim
The $128 includes my brokerage costs. I am gambling with AMR or QAMR, just as I gambled with 446 shares @ $5.00 less commission in my last truly negotiated contract. It would be pretty amazing and lucky for me to be able to go zero gain on the 446 shares and score on the 600 shares @ 0.20 at the same time. BTW I can recoup my $128 outlay this Sunday working for my employer.
 
AMR Corp.'s bankruptcy filing is taking a toll on one corner of the bond market: tax-exempt debt issued by local government agencies but backed by the parent of American Airlines.

The market value of these high-yield bonds fell 27% Tuesday, to $1.6 billion, from $2.2 billion at the close of business Monday, according to S&P Indices, as uncertainty surrounding AMR's filing caused some investors to shun the debt. The face value of the bonds originally was about $3 billion.

About half of these bonds—called "conduit" debt because a local government acts as a conduit between a private company and the municipal-bond market, where borrowing costs are significantly lower because interest payments are tax exempt—are unsecured. The rest is backed by collateral such as the rights to use gates at certain airports.

The repayment of corporate-backed conduit bonds is guaranteed by the company or by the specific revenue generated from the project the debt finances.

AMR's secured conduit bonds attracted bids of about 80 cents on the dollar late Wednesday morning, compared with about 90 cents before AMR filed for bankruptcy protection, said portfolio managers. Meanwhile, AMR's unsecured debt, including bonds supporting a project at Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport, was drawing bids at about 17 cents on the dollar, down from more than 40 cents before the bankruptcy filing.

AMR's high-yield corporate bonds didn't fare much better. A batch of AMR taxable corporate debt due in August 2021 traded as low as 16 cents on the dollar Wednesday, down from 38.15 cents on Monday. AMR bonds due September 2016 fell to 20 cents from 39 cents two days earlier, according to MarketAxess data, while bonds due October 2012 fell to 88.75 from 91.

Such trading "makes complete sense," said Chris Ryon, co-manager of Thornburg Municipal Bond Funds in Santa Fe, N.M., which has about $6.9 billion of municipal assets under management. Thornburg doesn't own any American Airlines-backed debt.

According to BondDesk Group data, unsecured American Airlines bond prices began to deteriorate in late September. Trading volume of the airline's tax-free debt in general has picked up over the past two to three months, though it still is lightly traded.

While selling has been pervasive since AMR filed for bankruptcy protection on Tuesday, there also has been an increased demand for the secured bonds, with some investors "presumably hoping for better recovery than perceived by the market in the case of default," said Chris Shayne, senior market strategist at BondDesk.

Indeed, it is possible some investors may have overreacted in selling AMR-backed muni debt after its bankruptcy filing, said Anthony Valeri, market strategist at LPL Financial in San Diego. He said some United-backed Denver airport debt repaid investors in full following that airline's bankruptcy in 2002. Mr. Valeri is suggesting his network of financial advisers not to reduce high-yield muni-bond exposure for clients in the wake of AMR's bankruptcy filing.

"If American Airlines intends to successfully emerge from bankruptcy, it is likely they will continue to make gate lease payments especially for busy New York and Los Angeles hubs, which comprise approximately 60% of AMR-backed municipal debt," Mr. Valeri said. "Failure to do so would mean reduced access to these markets and losing market share to competitors."

Conduit debt makes up about 30% of debt issued in the $2.9 trillion muni market, according to Municipal Market Advisors. However, airline-backed muni debt makes up about $8 billion, or less than 1%, of the debt outstanding in the muni market, according to data from Bank of America Merrill Lynch.

However, other major airlines, such as Southwest Airlines Co. and Delta Air Lines Inc., have sold tax-free debt through conduits like airport authorities or other municipal agencies.

WSJ
 
The $128 includes my brokerage costs. I am gambling with AMR or QAMR, just as I gambled with 446 shares @ $5.00 less commission in my last truly negotiated contract. It would be pretty amazing and lucky for me to be able to go zero gain on the 446 shares and score on the 600 shares @ 0.20 at the same time. BTW I can recoup my $128 outlay this Sunday working for my employer.
Well, if you effectively see the $128 as play money, take a gamble. AMR has traded at or above 40 cents at least three times since the filing - that's double your money less sales commissions. It's traded as high as 68 cents the day of the filing, although that may have been before news of the filing was widely circulated or noticed by most investors. It looks like the intra-day price swings have settled down, but it's too early to tell about longer term swings. You've got time to see what happens over the next month or so before making a decision.

Just don't hold your breath on breaking even on that $5/share purchase - I don't see any way that will happen unless some idiot puts in a market order and it crosses paths with your $5 sell order.

Jim
 

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