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Another Greedy UNION seeks new fair contract. IMAGINE THAT

Bear, you can't even spell Luciano's name correctly.

Sure, the Government negotiated with the mafia, primarily to rat out Axis sympathizers but also to deal with the work stoppages.

To me, that's just creative problem solving during a time of war. Luciano still wound up getting deported (which arguably was better for him than staying in a US prison), and under those set of circumstances, I don't have a problem with what they did. They worked out a plea agreement to essentially commute a sentence for an informer whose influence resulted in saving soldiers lives, and probably curbing espionage. Compared to what happened with Japanese Americans, this was a far better approach.

Had Luciano not played ball, I have little doubt that those on the docks would have been drafted as able bodied men, and with that the union dues would have stopped. Instead, the longshoremen got to sleep in their own beds, and not worry about being replaced.

It's hardly the same situation as what's being talked about, though.

You can't try to compare today's labor situation with the stigma that was cast on Italian, German, or Japanese Americans over their homelands being at war with the US. Nor can you try to draw a parallel with the national pride that cause both labor and management to put down the gloves and simply deal with the war effort.

And... make no mistake... the Govs of CA, WA, and OR know full well that choking the golden goose ends badly. If they allow the unions to play hardball, the state ultimately loses when that business permanently leaves their state. And coming full circle to the Canal discussions, leaving used to be an empty threat.

Now, it's not too far out of the question. Even moreso if the superport ever gets built down in Baja.
 
I swear eric, that all you Neocapitalists are born with a streak of DELUSION.
 
You think for one F'n second that if the   I L W U  gets a 'hint of a 'Giant END-AROUND conspiricy' that they don't go for Longer contracts with some similarities to what the ILA got via the  G A I for the east coast docks.
 
Besides, I'm surprised at MYSELF,.....EVEN comparing the Massive west coast operation to the much smaller east coast operation.
 
I'll be gone, and you'll be an old guy like me (now) , before you see your pipe dream come to fruition...........of all the Panamax ships lined up out at anchorage unable to get an available pier in ATLANTIS,... err excuse me,...the Baha !
 
NewHampshire Black Bears said:
I swear eric, that all you Neocapitalists are born with a streak of DELUSION.
 
You think for one F'n second that if the   I L W U  gets a 'hint of a 'Giant END-AROUND conspiricy' that they don't go for Longer contracts with some similarities to what the ILA got via the  G A I for the east coast docks.
 
Besides, I'm surprised at MYSELF,.....EVEN comparing the Massive west coast operation to the much smaller east coast operation.
 
I'll be gone, and you'll be an old guy like me (now) , before you see your pipe dream come to fruition...........of all the Panamax ships lined up out at anchorage unable to get an available pier in ATLANTIS,... err excuse me,...the Baha !
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Take a Hit
 
delldude said:
 
Take a Hit
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C'mon dell,...............I'm surprised at you.  You don't think I was on 'that site' just before i answered  eolesen.
 
One thing the ROBBER BARONS always knew, and its STILL true today,..................'TIME =  $$$$$$$' !
 
Assuming hypothetically that Shanghai is the closest port to Seattle, (and to a lesser degree) Anchorage AK(theres talk of completing RAIL from BC to ANC) no shipper in his right mind is going ALL-THE-WAY-AROUND to dock in galveston/houston or new orleans.
 
'WARREN will Magically come up with a TON of new flat cars and locomotives to move the asian cargo from the west coast to CHI/NYC/TITS-BERG/PHL/BOS  Faster than Anyone anywhere.
 
Be serious now. Do you HONESTLY think that the ports of SEA/PDX and SFO, plus 'WARREN aren't watching this wider canal thingy with a magnifing glass  ????????
 
 
(You need to get out More...dell)  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
NewHampshire Black Bears said:
Assuming hypothetically that Shanghai is the closest port to Seattle, (and to a lesser degree) Anchorage AK(theres talk of completing RAIL from BC to ANC) no shipper in his right mind is going ALL-THE-WAY-AROUND to dock in galveston/houston or new orleans.
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And yet, BWI, ORF, HOU, MIA, EWR, JAX, SAV, ILM, and CHS have all been investing in new cranes and dredging for the larger draft Panamax II ships.

If it aint for direct docking from Asia, why have they invested billions into these facilities?

The cost to ship a 40' container from PVG to EWR is roughly $3900 by sea. It's roughly $3100 to ship PVG to LAX.

Do you really think UP or BNSF are going to haul it for less than $800? The domestic rate for a container LAX-EWR runs about $3200 (yes, more than the voyage from PVG to LAX).

Look it up for yourself if you don't believe me, but if you can save between $1000 to 4000 per container, that starts to add up quickly.
 
eolesen said:
And yet, BWI, ORF, HOU, MIA, EWR, JAX, SAV, ILM, and CHS have all been investing in new cranes and dredging for the larger draft Panamax II ships.

If it aint for direct docking from Asia, why have they invested billions into these facilities?

The cost to ship a 40' container from PVG to EWR is roughly $3900 by sea. It's roughly $3100 to ship PVG to LAX.

Do you really think UP or BNSF are going to haul it for less than $800? The domestic rate for a container LAX-EWR runs about $3200 (yes, more than the voyage from PVG to LAX).

Look it up for yourself if you don't believe me, but if you can save between $1000 to 4000 per container, that starts to add up quickly.
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Eric,....I don't doubt you for a second.  LAX LGB SAN will certainly be affected, OAK/SFO/PDX/SEA/ANC to a lesser degree. But you seem to want all of us to believe that ALL the east coast work is being done EXCLUSIVELY for Asian Pacific shipping, and that the Panamax ships are only, or all are going to traverse the canal...........  ' N O T ' !
 
Those larger ships will CERTAINLY haul trans atlantic cargo as well,...Which IS one reason that for example, a place like CHS is being dredged.
Talk to me about the ...(not often talked about too much).......plan for RAIL to finally connect BC with AK.
Think a guy like 'WARREN couldn't team up with CP or CN or the Alaska RR..to bring that to fruition.
Jesus, not so long ago, NO ONE would have Ever dreamed about a third Panama canal  !!
 
signals said:
I have to ask, how did you get Lucky Luciano from Mr. Charles Lucchino???
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Ah, I was thinking of that ASSS HOLE....director of BB operations.............Larry Lucchino of the crummy Boston Red Sox !
 
GO,...N Y Yankees  !!!!!!!!!
 
Ms Tree said:
Not quite that simple the way I see it.  Historic union accomplishments aside (5 day work week, 8 hr day .. etc) it seems to me that a lot of folks who have unions need to have them because their profession can be replaced by lower wage earners without too much difficulty.  I think in a lot of circumstances the peoples skill set are such that there is no extensive training required.  assembly line workers, delivery folks .. etc  They need the union to protect their job because without the protections that a union grants them, their would be making less or replaced with someone who will work for less. 
 
Was I over paid at American?  Quite possibly so, but I had no union protecting my wage or job and counterparts at other airlines were making about the same.  Same goes for my current job but all my co-workers are paid the same as me even out side of my department.  My company pays well above average for the industry which is why the company ha a very low turn over.  If people believe they are worth what they are paid they should be willing to give up their protection.  In this case, I'm betting the long shore workers would not be willing to do so because most of them are non-skilled labor and can be replaced at the drop of a hat.  To hold a company hostage for even higher wages to me is unconscionable. 
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I would have to say I mostly agree.
 
The only wildcard in that statement is the fact that technology has made previously skilled work into semi skilled work. Take machining for instance. A company may advertise for a "machinist" but what they really want is someone they can show how to make one or two items and feed a CNC machine preloaded with a template..... and maybe one or two people that actually understand how to program them and set up machines for different tasks.
 
Technology has also made it possible to have one person that actually knows what they are doing to direct large groups that really only know what they need to know to finish their small piece of the overall project.  Accounting is a good example of that (one person to direct, the rest to plug information into QuickBooks or Sage 50). 
 
La Li Lu Le Lo said:
I would have to say I mostly agree.
 
The only wildcard in that statement is the fact that technology has made previously skilled work into semi skilled work. Take machining for instance. A company may advertise for a "machinist" but what they really want is someone they can show how to make one or two items and feed a CNC machine preloaded with a template..... and maybe one or two people that actually understand how to program them and set up machines for different tasks.
 
Technology has also made it possible to have one person that actually knows what they are doing to direct large groups that really only know what they need to know to finish their small piece of the overall project.  Accounting is a good example of that (one person to direct, the rest to plug information into QuickBooks or Sage 50). 
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Quickbooks  ???????
    Sage  50  ??????????
        " How to Program " ???????
 
.....  PROGRAM..........  " T  H  I  S "   !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
NewHampshire Black Bears said:
The Massive Crane (operators) perched hundreds of feet in the air, discharging and onloading hundreds of 40' containers very rapidly with pin point accuracy and extreme saftey for the many people below on the pier, and many times a high wind,..........  for starters.
 
The 'lashers' that are like tight-rope walkers as they secure the top row layers to the immediate bottom row, all the while dealing with an ice covered ship !
 
'Tree, check out any youtube video of a container crane operator.
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As far as crane operators, pay 'em big bucks....I've seen monkeys walk on tightropes!
 
NewHampshire Black Bears said:
Quickbooks  ???????
    Sage  50  ??????????
        " How to Program " ???????
 
.....  PROGRAM..........  " T  H  I  S "   !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Another example of rapier wit brought to you by NewHampshire Black Bears.
 
I was watching "The Office" the other night, and they were making fun of a paper company in a digital age.

One need look no further than what's happened to the paper mills throughout New England and Wisconsin, or the printing companies like RR Donnelly and Rand McNally. I don't think I've bought a physical book since getting my iPad four years ago. I certainly haven't had a phone book let alone a Yellow Pages in almost ten years.

Bears, some of the post-Panamax will indeed come from Europe, but they are already planning to route from Asia as well.

BNSF will finish double-tracking their transcon line by July (http://www.progressiverailroading.com/mow/article/BNSF-begins-doubletrack-project-in-New-Mexico--41210) but while UP was on target to close the remaining 100 miles or so in California-Arizona & Texas within two years, they deliberately slowed it down about 18 months ago.
 
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