Anti-kerry Film Sparks Dnc Response

[USAir757]

YEt a company who pays considerably higher than minimum wage (Sprint Corporation), recently announced an additional 700 layoffs. That's on top of the previous 10,000 plus layoffs.

Yes, but the people who clean their offices and bathrooms, and print out their peripherals, and empty their trash cans make minimum wage. And if you think raising the taxes AND the minimum wage is going to make it any better of an environment for new job creation, then you're wrong. But I said before this isn't as much about the large corporations making in the billions... we're talking small business in the $200-$600k per year that employ these types of people. There are millions of them. And if they have their taxes raised, and the minimum wage raised, you can bet the shirt on your back they won't be doing much hiring.

Keep that in mind the next time you hear John Kerry saying he'll raise the minimum wage and create jobs in practically the same breath.

 

[KCFlyer]

Keep that in mind the next time you hear John Kerry saying he'll raise the minimum wage and create jobs in practically the same breath.

[post="192103"][/post]​

I've been looking for the jobs that the Bush tax cuts were supposed to create. The only ones I saw were at the new Walmarts that have been built. Walmarts that were built, in many cases, with LOCAL tax breaks for them. Guess I'm willing to give Kerry the same chance Bush had.

 

[AA-MCI]

I've been looking for the jobs that the Bush tax cuts were supposed to create.

[post="192109"][/post]​

Look in China and India, that's where they are. When Bush said that giving tax cuts to the rich so they'll invest in business would create jobs, he didn't promise the jobs would be here.

 

[atabuy]

If you want to argue that it won't cause layoffs, then fine. I disagree. But what is for certain is that small businesses that employ minimum to slightly above minimum wage people will likely not go and hire that next employee if Kerry's proposed 35% wage increase hits their payroll across the board. So it does nothing to generate jobs in our economy. The price of a Big Mac is irrelevant, because a huge corporation like McDonald's is used to absorbing the democrats increases in the minimum wage. It is the small business sector (an unparalleled portion of our economy) that will suffer the most, and I'll say it again... JOBS WON'T BE CREATED, and we'll see even more companies shipping jobs offshore.

[post="192067"][/post]​

757,
Sorry, but I disagree with your reasoning.
We have lost over 2 million manufacturing jobs overseas, millions laid off within the USA and Bush sold everyone this deal about the little business guy, hiring all the laid off workers, that will take care of everything if we don't raise the personal and business income tax on them.
Everything here points in one direction and it will be inflation, which in turn will make interest rates rise, which in turn will be bad for the low wage earner and good for the rich guy.
I am sure you have investments that will benefit from a nice hike in interest rates.
Someone making under 50,000 will be getting less for their money and when they buy their used car to replace the one that broke down, then they will see the other side of the interest spectrum.

 

[USAir757]

We have lost over 2 million manufacturing jobs overseas, millions laid off within the USA and Bush sold everyone this deal about the little business guy, hiring all the laid off workers, that will take care of everything if we don't raise the personal and business income tax on them.

It's been slowly but surely happening for over a decade. I suspect that the unemployment rate would be measurably worse if "the little business guy" wasn't taken care of. That's why Alan Greenspan supported the reasoning for the Bush tax cut plan.

Everything here points in one direction and it will be inflation, which in turn will make interest rates rise, which in turn will be bad for the low wage earner and good for the rich guy.

Interest rates have nowhere to go but up. How long can an economy borrow money for free and still sustain itself?

I am sure you have investments that will benefit from a nice hike in interest rates.

That's quite presumptuous of you.

Someone making under 50,000 will be getting less for their money and when they buy their used car to replace the one that broke down, then they will see the other side of the interest spectrum.

At least that person has a job to make money, that's the idea here. Manufacturing sector: we have unemployment, we need to make sure we have businesses who can CREATE jobs in this fiercely competitive global environment. They will have to do it while their counterparts in China, India, Malaysia, etc. are doing it for far less than half the price. The global business environment is devaluing labor in our economy, and meanwhile demand for it is going down. Our exports are costing more to the rest of the world, while other countries are doing it cheaper and better. I'm sorry, but now is not the time to raise the minimum wage. It will make us that much more disabled to compete globally. In the small business/service sector, jobs that really can't be exported: we cannot expect small income earning employers to be able to create jobs if we are taking more money out of their pockets. Plain and simple.

 

[KCFlyer]

At least that person has a job to make money, that's the idea here. Manufacturing sector: we have unemployment, we need to make sure we have businesses who can CREATE jobs in this fiercely competitive global environment. They will have to do it while their counterparts in China, India, Malaysia, etc. are doing it for far less than half the price. The global business environment is devaluing labor in our economy, and meanwhile demand for it is going down. Our exports are costing more to the rest of the world, while other countries are doing it cheaper and better. I'm sorry, but now is not the time to raise the minimum wage. It will make us that much more disabled to compete globally. In the small business/service sector, jobs that really can't be exported: we cannot expect small income earning employers to be able to create jobs if we are taking more money out of their pockets. Plain and simple.

[post="192291"][/post]​

It would take a lot of small businesses to create jobs for the number of jobs in KC that were eliminated by Sprint alone. And most of those jobs that might be created are paying nowhere near what the job that was lost paid. I don't know...jobs created that pay a wage that doesn't allow for discretionary spending doesn't seem like it will do much for the economy.

 

[NWA/AMT]

Small businesses? Just who qualifies as a small business?

http://www.factcheck.org/article265.html

"A Bush-Cheney '04 ad claims Kerry would raise taxes on 900,000 small businesses and "hurt jobs." But it counts every high-salaried person who has even $1 of outside business income as a "small business owner" -- a definition so broad that even Bush and Cheney have qualified while in office. In fact, hundreds of thousands of those "small businesses" have no jobs to offer.

Furthermore, by the Bush definition 32 million "small businesses" would see no tax increase. The ad doesn't mention that, of course. Nor does it mention Kerry's proposals for some tax cuts specifically targeted for small businesses."

 

[USAir757]

It would take a lot of small businesses to create jobs for the number of jobs in KC that were eliminated by Sprint alone. And most of those jobs that might be created are paying nowhere near what the job that was lost paid.

Educate me. Why did Sprint pull out of Kansas City? How many people did they employ there? What is your city's overall current unemployment rate? And if you support a raise of the minimum wage, how will that help bring in some more businesses into Kansas City to employ more people there as opposed to, say, wherever the Sprint jobs ended up going?

 

[USAir757]

Small businesses? Just who qualifies as a small business?

We could argue for days about exagerations and elaborations of the truth on numbers on both sides... but to save us a whole lot of time and energy, I'll just say that it would be naive to think that the small business sector of our economy doesn't hold the biggest part of the pie.

 

[KCFlyer]

Educate me. Why did Sprint pull out of Kansas City? How many people did they employ there? What is your city's overall current unemployment rate? And if you support a raise of the minimum wage, how will that help bring in some more businesses into Kansas City to employ more people there as opposed to, say, wherever the Sprint jobs ended up going?

[post="192315"][/post]​

Sprint didn't pull out of Kansas City...they offshored jobs to India. In information systems, they tend to hire H1B (foreign) workers. Sprint is KC's largest private employer. The KC unemployement rate went from a low of under 3% (December of 1999) to just under 6% in July of this year.

Sprint has laid off 20,000 people in the past two years, and just announced another 700 layoffs for December. Most of those jobs that were lost were "good paying" jobs. Of those who remain, "mandatory 50" workweeks for "exempt" employees were implemented. And only the "slackers" work 50...go getters are putting in 60-70 hours per week. And with those new changes to the overtime law, I foresee a lot of "job reclassification" so that non-exempt employees can join the ranks of the exempt. That should save them even more, and theoretically (according to Bush) "create more jobs". But so far - it isn't working. On the upside, a new speedway was built, and with it a Cabela's and Nebraska Furniture Mart, where several ex Sprint employees ended up working. Those jobs however, do not pay anything close to what the job they lost paid.

Now, Sprint got a hellacious local tax break to build their world headquarters. I thought tax breaks were supposed to create jobs, but nothings perfect I guess. But with the money they saved, they were able to afford the $2,000,000 annual naming rights to the new arena that was just voted in.

The tax breaks for corporations has saved them a lot of money over the years, but that didn't help them create any new jobs. And when the pool of folks with discretionary income shrinks, doesn't that impact "small businesses" that depend on someone actually buying what they have to offer? If the pool of consumers is reduced, the demand tends to fall off.

 

[Fly]

This is a vicious cycle. No one is going to change their mind (or lack of minds in the Republican posters) If you think Bush has been good for our country....you must wear blinders. Hello!!!!! Look around....we're in a war we started, the economy is shot, thousands of jobs are being outsourced with our presidents blessing, and people are now expected to raise families on minimum wage (and like it). Get real. Vote that idiot out of office and hopefully you will all still get to keep your present jobs and income.

Good To Be In DC

 

[USAir757]

If you think Bush has been good for our country....you must wear blinders. Hello!!!!! Look around....

Fly
I'm not usually one to bring up polls, because I think they are pretty irrelevant. But I get attacked on this board when I post "vitriol" against other posters. You did just that to me. Also, you put up (yet another) post that is nothing but opinion without one bit of fact to support it. Just wondering (yet again) why your fellow democrat posters aren't all over you like they are when I do that.

You're in the minority

Vote that idiot out of office and hopefully you will all still get to keep your present jobs and income.

Fly, when there's more people that you think are crazy than there are that you think are sane, you need to start taking a hard look in the mirror.

"Hello!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" haha

 

[USAir757]

Sprint didn't pull out of Kansas City...they offshored jobs to India. In information systems, they tend to hire H1B (foreign) workers.... Sprint has laid off 20,000 people in the past two years, and just announced another 700 layoffs for December. Most of those jobs that were lost were "good paying" jobs.

Sprint is one of so many companies that are doing this now, as you know, simply because labor in other countries is so much cheaper that in order to stay competitive even in our own country now, they have to ship off. And Kansas City isn't unlike many other places in America all experiencing the same thing. But what is interesting, is that John Kerry's proposal to help this includes a raise in the minimum wage. Does that make sense to you? If you had two products next to eachother, one for $15 (made in China) and one for $85 (made in the US) that are the exact same thing, are you still going to buy American? What happens when we have to pay our workers more, and we have to change that $85/unit to $95/unit? It's going to dig us deeper into this problem.

There is no definite solution to getting jobs back in America, but we do need to acknowledge that this problem started long before GWB took office and has escalated from there for many reasons.

 

[NWA/AMT]

But I get attacked on this board when I post "vitriol" against other posters. You did just that to me.

[post="192372"][/post]​

Did I attack you? No. Did I express my disappointment that after being a voice of civility on this board for so long, you chose to rely instead on personal attacks? Yes. Up to that point I had enjoyed our discussions but apparently that is also a thing of the past.

I guess that as November 2nd draws close we should expect more of the same from both sides.

Just wondering (yet again) why your fellow democrat posters aren't all over you like they are when I do that.

How can we object to something we haven't seen yet?

If it will make you feel any better, let me go on record as saying that namecalling and "we rule - you suck" posts from either side are a waste of time and bandwidth. I would rather see us debate ideas rather than personalities, but I guess I'm in the minority, so feel free to 'fire at will'.

I am just as guilty as anyone else here of resorting to ad hominem attacks out of frustration, but when I felt that I had done so unfairly I apologized, even if it wasn't accepted. I have since tried to limit my attacks to the ideas of those I disagree with rather than them personally.

If it's any consolation, a good body shop should be able to buff out those scratches in your car paint as long as they don't go through into the metal.

 

[atabuy]

We could argue for days about exagerations and elaborations of the truth on numbers on both sides... but to save us a whole lot of time and energy, I'll just say that it would be naive to think that the small business sector of our economy doesn't hold the biggest part of the pie.

[post="192316"][/post]​

757,
http://www.factcheck.org/article265.html

Did you happen to go to the site NWA posted. It clearly gives good information about the small business man and who is affected by any tax hike or decrease.

We are not talking about raising taxes. Just putting them back where they were before the tax give-a-way Bush gave to himself and all the other elite.
Now when they got this tax break, how many more jobs were created, and how much did the owners just put in their pockets.
I am sure you do not know these facts and just take the party line that taxes hurt hiring.

A lot of these small businesses are contractors who build houses. When interest rates go up, do you think the housing market will suffer? Of course it will and when it happens people will be laid off, whether the owner got a tax break or not.

I really think you are naive to think taxes promote work for anyone unless the business gets tax credits for hiring and training new employees.

By the way, I assume a guy as sharp as you are and making a nice income would not spend beyond your means and would be saving money for the future and retirement. That is why I assumed interest rising would benefit you.
If this is not the case, I am sorry for my presumptions.