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Anti-kerry Film Sparks Dnc Response

NWA/AMT said:
You mean the thoroughly discredited reports of 'yellowcake' that British Intelligence is vigorously disavowing now?

http://www.time.com/time/columnist/karon/a...,465087,00.html
[post="191168"][/post]​


NOOO

I mean the stuff that has already been removed by the US. As referenced here.

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=3678



KC, Allow me to address the issue with Korea for a minute.

Make up your mind. If you complain that the president did not use diplomacy and try to build an international alliance, then you cannot complain when he does exactly that with Korea.

I'm sorry, but neither you nor Kerry can have it both ways.

You are just not going to be happy either way that he goes. If he were to decide to use military force to try to resolve this issue you would be moaning and groaning about that. He is trying to use an international alliance to resolve it and you are moaning and complaining about that.

Take your pick. Don't pull a Kerry on us. Pick a stance and stick with it.
 
Make up your mind. If you complain that the president did not use diplomacy and try to build an international alliance, then you cannot complain when he does exactly that with Korea. I'm sorry, but neither you nor Kerry can have it both ways.

My mind is made up...the war in Iraq wasn't justified. My comments that might sound that way are sarcasm, which is sometimes difficult to convey on a message board. Haven't changed my tune on that since March, 2003. But Bush appears tolerant of a more severe threat to the US than Iraq ever was. And I doubt that he will do "exactly that" with Korea until he can get the draft reinstated...we simply don't have the manpower to do it otherwise.

You are just not going to be happy either way that he goes. If he were to decide to use military force to try to resolve this issue you would be moaning and groaning about that. He is trying to use an international alliance to resolve it and you are moaning and complaining about that.

And I question why he didn't try to use an international alliance with Iraq...outside of powerhouse nations like Moldova and the Dominican Republic. I think it's because he recognizes that he DOESN'T have the manpower to do that ...and that he's going to NEED an international alliance from countries who CAN send more than 100 troops to support the effort. But he effectively ruined those chances with his my way or the highway attitude.
Take your pick. Don't pull a Kerry on us. Pick a stance and stick with it.

It's hard for you to understand that I haven't changed my stance at all....It's been all along - don't start a "global war on terror" unless you have a global coalition. Bush didn't. And now that makes his tough talk about "fer us or agin us" somewhat empty. We don't have the troops to take on Iran or Korea. And were stuck in Iraq for quite some time. And we have "allies" who sell nuclear secrets and grant amnesty to terrorists. Quite frankly, it makes Bush look like a flip-flopper par excellonce.
 
FredF said:
NOOO

I mean the stuff that has already been removed by the US. As referenced here.

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=3678
[post="191248"][/post]​

Perhaps the good folks at The American Thinker should have shared their information with the CIA. Judging by the following excerpts from the CIA WMD report, they could have used this revelation:

Results of ISG’s Investigation on Nuclear Issues

Iraq did not possess a nuclear device, nor had it
tried to reconstitute a capability to produce nuclear
weapons after 1991.

ISG has uncovered no information to support allegations
of Iraqi pursuit of uranium from abroad in
the post-Operation Desert Storm era.

Iraq did not reconstitute its indigenous ability to
produce yellowcake.

Post-1991, Iraq had neither rebuilt any capability to
convert uranium ore into a form suitable for enrichment
nor reestablished other chemical processes
related to handling fi ssile material for a weapons
program.

Available evidence leads ISG to judge that Iraq’s
development of gas centrifuges for uranium enrichment
essentially ended in 1991

ISG also judges that Iraq continued work on none
of the many other uranium enrichment programs
explored or developed prior to 1991, such as EMIS
or lasers.

It does not appear that Iraq took steps to advance its
pre-1991 work in nuclear weapons design and development.


Reference pages 144 and 145 of the Abode version of the CIA report found here:

http://www.foia.cia.gov/duelfer/Iraqs_WMD_Vol2.pdf

Sorry, but I'm going to have to take the word of the CIA on this one.
 
USAir757 said:
First, thank you and your son for your service.
[post="191174"][/post]​

I will pass along your thanks to both sons.

Apparently, different people see this same situation in two completely different ways.

What surprised me is that both sons, who, although both decidedly conservative in their politics are very different people, had similar experiences andhave reached such similar conclusions. Thankfully both made it home safely but both are expecting to serve there again soon.

I wish I could interest them in sharing their stories with us as they have with me.

About seeing the Iraqi Defense Forces train during the day and then fighting the same people, using the weapons and ammo we gave them, at night in Fallujah.

About having his platoon called to rescue a team of 'contractors' (actually mercenaries) from DynCorp or one of the other US 'contractors' working for the Iraqi Interim Government that were caught while trashing the offices of an Iraqi Labor Union that opposes the sale of Iraqi assets at pennies on the dollar to US corporations and their overseas subsidiaries.

About being used by the Sunni faction controlling their area to supress potential political rivals after being fed false reports of terrorist activities.

About being used for political rather than military objectives as was seen in the aborted attacks on Fallujah last spring and summer.

The men and women who serve this nations military are the finest among us and they are willing to lay down their lives for us. It is incumbent on us to be certain, not 'pretty sure' but certain, that their sacrifice is absolutely necessary and that it is not wasted. I don't think that either standard have been met by the Bush administration in Iraq.
 
Oh great, here you go again with the lie about the draft. First, Bush has no plans to institute a draft, and second, even if he did, it would still take an act of congress to instate it.



Perhaps the good folks at The American Thinker should have shared their information with the CIA. Judging by the following excerpts from the CIA WMD report, they could have used this revelation:

You are correct, the duelfer report clearly states that while they were not actively working on the programs, that they clearly were able to re-start them as soon as the sanctions were lifted.

I guess that the energy Department was off when they issued this one though.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A...anguage=printer

And then the UN must not have taken offense that the US removed the material without their permission.


Must be a fantasy of mine right??
 
FredF said:
Oh great, here you go again with the lie about the draft. First, Bush has no plans to institute a draft, and second, even if he did, it would still take an act of congress to instate it.
[post="191294"][/post]​

Fred...think a bit farther into the future than next Monday. Korea poses a threat, right? Iran poses a threat, right? Our troops are busy in Iraq, right? The number of volunteers for the military has dropped, right? So....we are focused on Iraq right now...since Iraq has boiled down to "coulda's and shoulda's....what would happen if there were some loud noises made in Korea? Iran? What do we do? We don't have the manpower to send troops over there...we've alienated the countries whose help we would need...not the countries in the "coalition of the willing", but the bigger, more powerful countries. We've alienated them...we can't count on getting their support. But we need to quash that threat. What do we quash it with? Where do we get the troops we'd need to mount such a campaign?

Bush 1 pledged "no new taxes", yet what was the biggest reason he wasn't reelected? If W is re-elected, he hasn't anything to lose...and if he really needed to address the more important threats facing the country, he'd most likely have to submit a proposal to re-institute the draft. And do you think the Congress would vote for or against it?

You can't see that our "war plan" in Iraq was flawed from the get-go, but it was, and because of that the United States is MORE VULNERABLE to an attack from countries that had always posed a greater threat to us than Iraq. Bush, Cheney and Rummy went into this war figuring we'd be in and out in 30 days. They were way off base We're more vulnerable today than we ever were before. You claim it's a "lie about the draft". But the reality is, the draft may be closer than you think.
 
It matters not what you think or believe of for that matter what I believe. The fact of the matter is that it still takes an Act of Congress to re-institute a draft. This is not something that the President can just "DO"

That is something that you should know. But I guess that if two United State Senators don't why should you.
 
FredF said:
It matters not what you think or believe of for that matter what I believe. The fact of the matter is that it still takes an Act of Congress to re-institute a draft. This is not something that the President can just "DO"

That is something that you should know. But I guess that if two United State Senators don't why should you.
[post="191333"][/post]​

Fred...what part of this comment did you not understand?:

...and if he really needed to address the more important threats facing the country, he'd most likely have to submit a proposal to re-institute the draft. And do you think the Congress would vote for or against it?

I thought I was fairly clear that Congress would have to approve it. Gosh...it takes an act of congress to declare war....Our president asked for it...the Congress voted for it...What would be different if we found ourselves needing more manpower and Bush asked for the draft to be reinstated? And the threat is there...the threat is real. The threat is greater than any threat Iraq posed.
 
FredF said:
Oh great, here you go again with the lie about the draft. First, Bush has no plans to institute a draft, and second, even if he did, it would still take an act of congress to instate it.
[post="191294"][/post]​

I assume this isn't directed at me as I haven't mentioned anything about the draft but since you mentioned it I'd like to add my two cents.

For what it's worth, I don't believe that either party would or could reinstitute a draft, and, given the current world situation I don't see that it is necessary. On the other hand, if the North Korean Army was to roll across the DMZ that could change quickly. As someone who served in both the era of the draft and the era of the volunteer force, I can say from personal experience that an army of draftees is in no way equivalent to and army of volunteers in the areas of motivation and effectiveness. I still remember clearly the older Marine NCOs lamenting the fact that the Marines had to rely on the draft during Vietnam and the changes that made in the Corps. I was glad to see it end.

However, the implementation of multiple 'stop loss' programs shows the need for our forces to be expanded and the best way to do that is by making military service a better choice to young people, not by forcing them to serve against their will. Dealing with the fact that many of the lower enlisted ranks qualify for food stamps would be a good first step, even if it meant someone else didn't get a tax cut.

And then the UN must not have taken offense that the US removed the material without their permission.

Actually, according to the American Thinker article you referenced, they did:

"The UN’s nuclear watchdog, the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), was very upset last week that the US had shipped about 1.8 tons of low-enriched uranium and other radioactive material out of Iraq for disposition in the US."

And one would have to wonder at the last paragraph in the Washington Post article you referenced:

"A month later, the Pentagon rejected suggestions that U.N. inspectors be allowed to reenter Iraq but agreed the IAEA experts could return to secure the uranium that had been under its seal for years."

As the occupying force the US is responsible for securing and guarding such sites, yet according to the Washington Post article it was several days after the fall of Baghdad that the site was secured, and since the site was South of Baghdad the area had been under US control for several days before that, yet it was left open for looters while we secured the Oil Ministry even though we knew that the facility and the materials were there.

"Before the U.S.-led coalition's invasion of Iraq, as the Bush administration alleged that Hussein had reconstituted his nuclear program, Tuwaitha was a target for U.S. intelligence.
"

Yet the CIA reports that nothing of the sort had occurred or was occurring.

Must be a fantasy of mine right??

Just the threat you think it posed. Meanwhile, Iran and North Korea continue to process theirs...
 
AMT, You are one of the few folks in this discussion that IMO can talk on Iraq. Having raised two sons with the patriotism and sense of Duty to serve their country, you've definately earned that right.

FWIW, I was stopped lossed in the 90's. I don't remember the outcry from all the concerned liberals back then though.....
 
Busdrvr said:
AMT, You are one of the few folks in this discussion that IMO can talk on Iraq. Having raised two sons with the patriotism and sense of Duty to serve their country, you've definately earned that right.
[post="191478"][/post]​

Thank you. It's kind of the family business for us, but I was very proud they both chose to serve.

FWIW, I was stopped lossed in the 90's. I don't remember the outcry from all the concerned liberals back then though.....

'Stop Loss' programs are actually more common than many think, partiicularly for positions like pilots and others where there is a large investment in training. As someone who spent a little time as a recruiter I hate to see it any time because it usually means that the recruiters aren't hitting their manpower targets or people aren't staying in when they could. I'm sorry that it happened to you, or to anyone else, but the scope of the recent 'stop loss' programs and the recall of the Individual Ready Reserve is really unprecedented. I can imagine that it felt a bit like a draft to them.
 
NWA/AMT said:
So you support selective censorship?
[post="191170"][/post]​
I guess it's only a first amendment problem when you agree with it, huh?
is what you intimated in the first place.....i think you've shown us you do..
 
delldude said:
is what you intimated in the first place.....i think you've shown us you do..
[post="191605"][/post]​

Hmmm....I don't see where you're getting that... Farenhiet 911 wasn't shown on television stations. Thus, no "equal time" requirement. But perhaps you could explain that "equal time" thing to us so we might better understand it. From what I understand, Sinclair broadcasting owns a lot of netowrk TV stations... If Michael Moore decided to edit down Farenheit 911 to the same time as the anti Kerry program that Sinclair is running, are you saying that Sinclair would welcome the program with open arms, in the spirit of "equal time"?
 
delldude said:
is what you intimated in the first place.....i think you've shown us you do..
[post="191605"][/post]​

Nope, just pointing out your double standard on the First Amendment. If it was my decision, I'd show both, how is that censorship?
 
KCFlyer said:
Hmmm....I don't see where you're getting that... Farenhiet 911 wasn't shown on television stations. Thus, no "equal time" requirement. But perhaps you could explain that "equal time" thing to us so we might better understand it. From what I understand, Sinclair broadcasting owns a lot of netowrk TV stations... If Michael Moore decided to edit down Farenheit 911 to the same time as the anti Kerry program that Sinclair is running, are you saying that Sinclair would welcome the program with open arms, in the spirit of "equal time"?
[post="191621"][/post]​

I'll tell you what, take every person F@T@ss took out of context, allow them to add the full text of the "snipets" F@T@ss put in his movie so that they can be taken in CONTEXT, THEN I'll agree that the movie has a place. Keep in mind the stolen honor documentary is produced by the folks in the movie to tell you the unaltered truth about how they feel and how John Kerry sold out his country.
 
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