Are two missing Rivets on an engine Pylon a Safety Concern?

[delldude]

I love it when you talk dirty, delldude

Apparently some folks either don't know or intentionally disregard the difference between a safety issue and a routine maintenance issue.....

Jim

Thanks Jim...if anyone would know...its you 😉

 

[BoeingBoy]

Do you mean a routine maintenance issue becomes a safety issue when it is intentionally disregarded?

While that certainly could be the case, it doesn't automatically follow. Further, there's absolutely no evidence of that being the case here.

In this specific case, a non-structural part is attached with a number of fasteners of which only 2 appear to be missing. Assuming no further loss of fasteners, the airplane could continue to operate with no safety degradation. Without having a MEL/CEL to check, it's entirely possible that the airplane would be allowed to operate with the fairing missing with no degradation of safety.

That is not to say that this airplane should continue to be operated as if nothing was amiss. Any irregularity needs to be brought to the attention of maintence and corrected or placed on the MEL/CEL.

The OP's question concerned the affect these two missing fasteners have on safety. The OP didn't address how long these fasteners had been missing or what that may or may not say about the carrier's maintenance practices, etc.

Just looking at the pictures, I can't tell if those fasteners had been lost on the previous flight, whether maintenance was aware they were missing and were on the way to take appropriate action, whether a proper maintenance sign-off was already in the log book authorizing flight with them missing, or even if lots of the other fasteners were missing. All I can do is answer the OP's question - do those two missing fasteners, by themselves, make the airplane unsafe. I stand by my answer that they, by themselves, do not. In other words, if I were the Captain of that airplane and found out in flight that those two fasteners were missing, I would not hesitate to continue on to my destination. I would not throw my hands up and scream "This airplane's falling apart, we're all going to die!!!"

Maybe you can deduce much more from those pictures and therefore speculate that the fasteners had been missing for weeks/months/years, and are therefore indicative of sloppy maintenance, which furthur indicates that other maintenance is not performed, which leads to the conclusion that this airplane is unsafe. But that would be nothing but speculation.

Jim

 

[JohnHenry]

"All I can do is answer the OP's question - do those two missing fasteners, by themselves, make the airplane unsafe. I stand by my answer that they, by themselves, do not."


Jim, that is not the OP's question. The OP wanted to know if the missing rivets are a safety concern. I stand by my answer, yes they are a safety concern. :cop:

 

[delldude]

Well if they are such a safety concern....explain why.

Do you mean a routine maintenance issue becomes a safety issue when it is intentionally disregarded?

Not to worry...its one of those planes being returned

Mechanic: We have two missing screws on the number one engine canoe.Do you want to take a maintenance delay and replace them?

Pilot:

 

[JohnHenry]

Well if they are such a safety concern....explain why.

I sure would hate to be someone on the ground with a hole in my head because of a rivet drilling through it.


"Mechanic: We have two missing screws on the number one engine canoe.Do you want to take a maintenance delay and replace them?"

A typical yard crew knuckle dragging response...fortunately in the past tense.

 

[delldude]

I sure would hate to be someone on the ground with a hole in my head because of a rivet drilling through it.

First,dude...its a screw.

Like I asked...if its a safety concern...please explain why.

 

[JohnHenry]

First,dude...its a screw.

Like I asked...if its a safety concern...please explain why.

The OP said rivets; never the less, yes they are screws. Regardless: missing fasteners are a concern of the FAA. If fasteners are missing something must be amiss; and flying overhead people.... missing fasteners can be a safety issue. Also missing fasteners are in the damage category; if rivets, they must be replaced, if a screw....they can be deferred if in the secondary structure category (fairings) providing they adhere to spacing, torque and location requirements. The bottom line....they must be recorded in the aircraft log. 🙂

 

[delldude]

The OP said rivets; never the less, yes they are screws. Regardless: missing fasteners are a concern of the FAA. If fasteners are missing something must be amiss; and flying overhead people.... missing fasteners can be a safety issue. Also missing fasteners are in the damage category; if rivets, they must be replaced, if a screw....they can be deferred if in the secondary structure category (fairings) providing they adhere to spacing, torque and location requirements. The bottom line....they must be recorded in the aircraft log. 🙂

So in the end...not necessarily a 'safety of flight' issue in this case. 😉

 

[JohnHenry]

So in the end...not necessarily a 'safety of flight' issue in this case. 😉

Safety of flight was not the issue in this thread, the OP wanted to know if there was a "safety concern". :boring:

 

[delldude]

These areas of the airplane are under tremendous aerodynamic stresses and require attention if something is amiss. Why are screws/rivets missing? Someone certainly did not remove them; on inspection, most likely the hole will be elongated. If these problems are not corrected, eventually there is the possibility of this part separating from the aircraft. I stand by my answer, yes they are a safety concern. :cop:

Sounds like you seemed to think it was an issue regarding SOF.

 

[JohnHenry]

Sounds like you seemed to think it was an issue regarding SOF.

Sounds to me delldude like you have an issue comprehending the issue. :unsure:

 

[delldude]

Sounds to me delldude like you have an issue comprehending the issue. :unsure:

Thats not my issue...