Asiana 777 hard landing crash at SFO
- Thread starter 700UW
- Start date
jimntx
Veteran
A tribute to the flight attendants that they got people out of the a/c so quickly resulting in the low killed and injured numbers. If people had remained in the a/c much longer...well, I think the burned out cabin says it all.
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
- 10,662
- Banned
- #18
OZ says half of the passengers were Chinese which makes the successful evacuation even more notable; perhaps there were Chinese speaking FAs onboard but the majority of passengers were Chinese, Americans, and Koreans, making for a challenging environment in which to manage an emergency. Apparently the commands to not take your personal effects didn't register with some of the passengers.
Several reports are that the instrument landing system was OTS on the runway the OZ flight landed on... anyone know why? Scheduled maintenance or had it been going an issue previously?
Several reports are that the instrument landing system was OTS on the runway the OZ flight landed on... anyone know why? Scheduled maintenance or had it been going an issue previously?
xUT
Veteran
I read somewhere the ILS was OOS 28L & 28R because of work on the runway.
No ILS == No Autoland.
From pictures, seems some PAX stopped to get their belongings and rollaways. :wacko:
B) xUT
robbedagain
Veteran
- Oct 13, 2003
- 11,125
- 2,676
ive read where they said it cartwheeled... however accrding to the pics i do not think the plane cartwheeled if it did i would imagine that the death toll would have been much higher and the plane not as intact as it actually is. its amazing that it is as intact as it is but its odd that there was a fire that burned a section of the plane but the rest does not appear to have fire damaged
metopower
Veteran
- Nov 28, 2006
- 932
- 313
Oz214 was more then likely flying the rnav 28L approach. There is no auto land capability at the present time with this approach. One of the problems may have been that his speed may have been assigned to be 180 kt to the bridge. It does not give an unfamiliar pilot a lot of time and distance to get it all done and stabilized if you are behind. Sounds like he may have tried a go around but was too late. Just my rough guess
Glenn Quagmire
Veteran
- Apr 30, 2012
- 4,809
- 4,343
http://youtu.be/8kBLM-6dUGs
UAL 885 (A 744) was holding short of 28L as OZ214 attempted to land. They radioed to tower just after saying that "they see 2 or 3 people moving on the runway right near the numbers". According to other reports, it seems that these were the deaths. They apparently were ejected from the aircraft as the tail hit and came off, opening up the huge hole in the pressure bulkhead.
I hope there are no more deaths as a result. It is amazing that as many people got out and survived. I did see the pictures of one lady carrying her roller bag and handbag along. Amazing.
UAL 885 (A 744) was holding short of 28L as OZ214 attempted to land. They radioed to tower just after saying that "they see 2 or 3 people moving on the runway right near the numbers". According to other reports, it seems that these were the deaths. They apparently were ejected from the aircraft as the tail hit and came off, opening up the huge hole in the pressure bulkhead.
I hope there are no more deaths as a result. It is amazing that as many people got out and survived. I did see the pictures of one lady carrying her roller bag and handbag along. Amazing.
Glenn Quagmire
Veteran
- Apr 30, 2012
- 4,809
- 4,343
This is from another forum:
http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/safety/75814-asiana-777-crash-sfo-7.html
"While the ILS is out, they are running simultaneous precision GPS approaches at SFO, there's an FAA notice out about this (changes ops specs)."
Quote:
NOTICE
U.S. DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION
FEDERAL AVIATION ADMINISTRATION
N 8900.216
National Policy
Effective Date: 5/22/13
Cancellation Date: 5/22/14
SUBJ:
OpSpec/MSpec A002, Definitions and Abbreviations; and OpSpec/MSpec/LOA C052, Straight-In Non-Precision, APV, and Category I Precision Approach and Landing Minima—All Airports
1. Purpose of this Notice. This notice provides revised guidance for Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) certificate-holding district offices (CHDO) and principal operations inspectors (POI) assigned to operators conducting airplane operations under Title 14 of the Code of Federal Regulations (14 CFR) parts 91 subpart K (part 91K), 121, 125 (including the Letter of Deviation Authority (LODA) 125M operators), 129, and 135. This notice amends operations specifications (OpSpecs) A002 and C052. They are amended as follows:
a. OpSpec A002: Added the following Area Navigation (RNAV) (Global Positioning System (GPS)) precision runway monitor (PRM) definition: RNAV (GPS) PRM: RNAV (GPS) approach that may be substituted for an instrument landing system (ILS) PRM or localizer-type directional aid (LDA) PRM approach and is procedurally equivalent.
b. OpSpec C052: Amended FAA Order 8900.1 guidance to include RNAV (GPS) PRM approaches and added a non-mandatory RNAV (GPS) PRM selectable to the OpSpec.
2. Audience. The primary audience for this notice is FAA CHDOs and POIs assigned to operators conducting airplane operations under parts 91K, 121, 125 (including the LODA 125M operators), 129, and 135. The secondary audience includes Flight Standards divisions including their branches in the FAA regions and at FAA headquarters (HQ).
3. Where You Can Find This Notice. You can find this notice on the MyFAA employee Web site at https://employees.faa.gov/tools_reso...rders_notices/. Inspectors can access this notice through the Flight Standards Information Management System (FSIMS) at http://fsims.avs.faa.gov. Operators may find this information on the FAA’s Web site at Flight Standards Information System (FSIMS). This notice is available to the public at Orders & Notices.
4. Background. For about three months in mid-year 2013, the FAA will render the LDA for runway 28L and the ILS for runway 28L out of service (OTS) at San Francisco International Airport (SFO) due to runway construction. The loss of these navigation aids will eliminate the ability for SFO to conduct PRM approaches during simultaneous offset instrument approach (SOIA) operations. The FAA plans to publish RNAV (GPS) PRM procedures prior to this navigation aid shutdown. These procedures will mirror the OTS approach courses so that SOIA can be conducted during the construction period. After the construction is complete, the RNAV (GPS) PRM approaches will be available in the event of either a scheduled or unplanned loss of a ground-based navigation aid. They will also be available as an alternate method for conducting a SOIA approach when requested by the pilot and cleared to do so by air traffic control (ATC). The changes in OpSpecs to include RNAV (GPS) PRM are presently applicable only at SFO, but may in the future apply to any location where closely-spaced approaches are conducted, and where RNAV (GPS) PRM‑approaches are published.
http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/safety/75814-asiana-777-crash-sfo-7.html
"While the ILS is out, they are running simultaneous precision GPS approaches at SFO, there's an FAA notice out about this (changes ops specs)."
Quote:
NOTICE
U.S. DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION
FEDERAL AVIATION ADMINISTRATION
N 8900.216
National Policy
Effective Date: 5/22/13
Cancellation Date: 5/22/14
SUBJ:
OpSpec/MSpec A002, Definitions and Abbreviations; and OpSpec/MSpec/LOA C052, Straight-In Non-Precision, APV, and Category I Precision Approach and Landing Minima—All Airports
1. Purpose of this Notice. This notice provides revised guidance for Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) certificate-holding district offices (CHDO) and principal operations inspectors (POI) assigned to operators conducting airplane operations under Title 14 of the Code of Federal Regulations (14 CFR) parts 91 subpart K (part 91K), 121, 125 (including the Letter of Deviation Authority (LODA) 125M operators), 129, and 135. This notice amends operations specifications (OpSpecs) A002 and C052. They are amended as follows:
a. OpSpec A002: Added the following Area Navigation (RNAV) (Global Positioning System (GPS)) precision runway monitor (PRM) definition: RNAV (GPS) PRM: RNAV (GPS) approach that may be substituted for an instrument landing system (ILS) PRM or localizer-type directional aid (LDA) PRM approach and is procedurally equivalent.
b. OpSpec C052: Amended FAA Order 8900.1 guidance to include RNAV (GPS) PRM approaches and added a non-mandatory RNAV (GPS) PRM selectable to the OpSpec.
2. Audience. The primary audience for this notice is FAA CHDOs and POIs assigned to operators conducting airplane operations under parts 91K, 121, 125 (including the LODA 125M operators), 129, and 135. The secondary audience includes Flight Standards divisions including their branches in the FAA regions and at FAA headquarters (HQ).
3. Where You Can Find This Notice. You can find this notice on the MyFAA employee Web site at https://employees.faa.gov/tools_reso...rders_notices/. Inspectors can access this notice through the Flight Standards Information Management System (FSIMS) at http://fsims.avs.faa.gov. Operators may find this information on the FAA’s Web site at Flight Standards Information System (FSIMS). This notice is available to the public at Orders & Notices.
4. Background. For about three months in mid-year 2013, the FAA will render the LDA for runway 28L and the ILS for runway 28L out of service (OTS) at San Francisco International Airport (SFO) due to runway construction. The loss of these navigation aids will eliminate the ability for SFO to conduct PRM approaches during simultaneous offset instrument approach (SOIA) operations. The FAA plans to publish RNAV (GPS) PRM procedures prior to this navigation aid shutdown. These procedures will mirror the OTS approach courses so that SOIA can be conducted during the construction period. After the construction is complete, the RNAV (GPS) PRM approaches will be available in the event of either a scheduled or unplanned loss of a ground-based navigation aid. They will also be available as an alternate method for conducting a SOIA approach when requested by the pilot and cleared to do so by air traffic control (ATC). The changes in OpSpecs to include RNAV (GPS) PRM are presently applicable only at SFO, but may in the future apply to any location where closely-spaced approaches are conducted, and where RNAV (GPS) PRM‑approaches are published.
Was the threshold recently displaced on this runway? The one thing that jumped out at me were the old runway markings that were blacked out... A big no - no by FAA standards, depending on angle of decent, old markings that are blacked out will show up as white if there are sufficient glass beads attached to the old paint, I would think the NTSB will look at this as a possible factor.. I do realize that this was a daytime approach, but I would assume all possibilities would be examined..
Glenn Quagmire
Veteran
- Apr 30, 2012
- 4,809
- 4,343
They had just finished part of threshold displacement as part of a large RSA project at SFO.
Type of Contract: Federal
Department: Design and Construction
Contract Number: 8670A
Contract Name: RSA R/W 10R Paving and Lighting
Description: In response to a Congressional mandate requiring that all airports? runway safety areas comply with Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) design standards, San Francisco International Airport (SFO) has embarked on a Runway Safety Area (RSA) Improvement Program. This program will implement necessary modifications through several contracts, phased over a four year period. As part of SFO?s RSA Program, Contract 8670A will displace Runway 10R in order to comply with the safety area dimensional requirement at the runway end. The displacement will be accomplished by adding a new runway section at the 10R end, thereby shifting the 10R threshold 781 feet. The 28L threshold will be shifted 300 feet to the west under a separate contract. Subsequent improvements will include construction of a new entry taxiway at the new 10R end and paving of the safety area behind/around the 10R entrance. Utility modifications will include grade adjustments, abandonment, and new structure installation. Electrical modifications will include installation of runway and taxiway lights, signs, and other electrical equipment as required by the new alignments. FAA NAVAIDS equipment adjustments will include relocation of the 28L localizer antennae and shelter and the 10R PAPI. The infrastructure for Runway Status Lights (RWSL) will be installed along Runway 10R and Taxiways ?K? and ?Q?. 28L RWSLs will be installed under a separate contract.
Contract Manager: Seng Nguy
Contact Phone Number: 650-821-7737
Contact Email: [email protected]
Estimated Cost Range: $16M
Duration of the Contract: 109 days susbstantial completion/165 days final completion
Bid Date: February 17, 2012 (Friday)
Bid Time: 2:00 PM
Prebid Date: February 1, 2012 (Wednesday)
Prebid Time: 1:30 PM
You have to login to view the Contract Specifications, Plan Holders List, and the Addendum
http://www.aci-na.org/sites/default/files/lawrance_sfo_rsa_presentation_aci_april_2011.pdf
Type of Contract: Federal
Department: Design and Construction
Contract Number: 8670A
Contract Name: RSA R/W 10R Paving and Lighting
Description: In response to a Congressional mandate requiring that all airports? runway safety areas comply with Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) design standards, San Francisco International Airport (SFO) has embarked on a Runway Safety Area (RSA) Improvement Program. This program will implement necessary modifications through several contracts, phased over a four year period. As part of SFO?s RSA Program, Contract 8670A will displace Runway 10R in order to comply with the safety area dimensional requirement at the runway end. The displacement will be accomplished by adding a new runway section at the 10R end, thereby shifting the 10R threshold 781 feet. The 28L threshold will be shifted 300 feet to the west under a separate contract. Subsequent improvements will include construction of a new entry taxiway at the new 10R end and paving of the safety area behind/around the 10R entrance. Utility modifications will include grade adjustments, abandonment, and new structure installation. Electrical modifications will include installation of runway and taxiway lights, signs, and other electrical equipment as required by the new alignments. FAA NAVAIDS equipment adjustments will include relocation of the 28L localizer antennae and shelter and the 10R PAPI. The infrastructure for Runway Status Lights (RWSL) will be installed along Runway 10R and Taxiways ?K? and ?Q?. 28L RWSLs will be installed under a separate contract.
Contract Manager: Seng Nguy
Contact Phone Number: 650-821-7737
Contact Email: [email protected]
Estimated Cost Range: $16M
Duration of the Contract: 109 days susbstantial completion/165 days final completion
Bid Date: February 17, 2012 (Friday)
Bid Time: 2:00 PM
Prebid Date: February 1, 2012 (Wednesday)
Prebid Time: 1:30 PM
You have to login to view the Contract Specifications, Plan Holders List, and the Addendum
http://www.aci-na.org/sites/default/files/lawrance_sfo_rsa_presentation_aci_april_2011.pdf
Glenn Quagmire
Veteran
- Apr 30, 2012
- 4,809
- 4,343
CNN has actual video of the landing.
xUT
Veteran
After seeing that, I can see how someone might think cartwheel.
If that right wing would have snapped off, it would have been a cartwheel, and a totally different outcome.
Amazing that it didn't given the forces that it must have taken.
Kudos to Boeing!
B) xUT
Glenn Quagmire
Veteran
- Apr 30, 2012
- 4,809
- 4,343
Target set at 137 kts. NTSB said
"The speed was significantly below 137kt," says NTSB chairman Deborah Hersman. "We're not talking about a few knots."
Too low, too slow. Stick shaker, then pancake.
xUT
Veteran
1.5 Seconds before impact, pilot ask for a go around (from CNN so take it as it is).
http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/07/us/plane-crash-main/
B) xUT
