Attitude = Reality

[Jet Tech]

Again the right to collective bargining is legal. What that has to do with a 19th century German philosipher or the monstrosities that bore his name is a strech. The reason rights have been won over the years was to quell social upheaval, not because big business cared.

You mean upheaval like burning buildings, and murdering employers. Dude, thats for the post office. Legal or not, you will never be able to convince me that the hands of the Mafia are still in Union pockets.

 

[Jet Tech]

I don't do ANY boasting for anyone Jet Tech. I have an opinion and I voice it! Don't like? I could not concievably care less.

Clearly I've struck a nerve as you are now lowering yourself to the level that you so frequently critisize by attacking the poster and not the points made. If you can't accept a little common sense then that's your issue,

Please explain to ALL of us here just exactly how your decision to cross a picket line improved or added value to society.

Did it help to raise wages for othe AMT's?

Did it help to stem the tide of outsourcing high wage jobs?

Did it build the tax base of the local community in which the work is located?

OR

Did it benefit only YOU??

What you and others including the AMFA members fail to realize is that this whole episode has Neil Cohen, Steenland and the rest laughing their collective asses off at the stupidity of the average American worker. They played the AMFA like a cheap fiddle and the replacements took the bait hook, line, sinker, fishing pole and bass boat.

Thing that cracks me up with the skills the replacement AMT's possess they could easily make more money twisting wrenches at the local Audi dealer 5 days a week, no holiday & weekends, no unions, getting paid on the Flat rate hour. BUT NOOOOOOOO you have to for some yet undetermined reason go out of your way to take a job from a fellow citizen and maybe even fellow brother in arms (as many AMT's are ex military) and you wonder why I question your morals, values and ethics? The wonder to me how you can face yourself in the mirror.

I do NOT like what unions have become and I don't for a minute blame people for not wanting to "work union". What I like even less is people like you Jet Tech who put their interests above all others. It puts you in the same box morally as Ken Lay, the Rigas family, Dennis Kozlowski and the other corporate criminals. What you did and are doing puts downward pressure on the wages of everyone who works for a living in the USA. Since I live here it pisses me off that your actions could effect me eventually.

So go punch in now safe in the knowledge that you "Got Yours" and to hell with everyone else. I recently donated my NWA miles to charity rather than fly on an airline maintained by AMT's who clearly have little regard for their fellow man. It has nothing to do with your skills as AMT's but rather your attitude towards life and your fellow man. I just wouldn't feel safe on planes maintained by folks who have so clearly demonstrated their complete lack of moral fiber and character. That and I do not want to reward a company as morally bankrupt as it is fiscally bankrupt as NWA!

Ok clearly you have once again read too much into what someone has said. So let me make this painfully obvious to you and everyone else that can't figure it out.
I am a college educated individual. That means that I study and analize everything that I do. Your absolutely right. I don't have to work at NWA. Why do I? Three reasons. 1. I love avaiation, it is in my blood, my soul, my very being. That has not changed about me in 26 years and it never will. 2. I love what I do. I am passionate about my work and will go to great lengths to continue doing it, even be away from the three people that make my life so rich for unspecified periods of time. 3. I never back down from a fight.

I have listened to most of you spin tails of the "Evil Dark Lord of the Management" like they are all sitting behind their desk conspiring to ruin each and every one of you just because you work there. Further more, those who are on strike or support the strike are just as guilty as Mgmt. You all complain that Mgmt is doing everything possible to keep you poor and miserable and they forcably take that which is yours all while lining their pockets at your expence. Hate to break it to you but by refusing to work (thats what a stike is) you are in effect doing the exact same thing. Forcing your way to higher pay, better benifits, more jobs or what ever the case. They all bare and follow the same trail.....Money. And I'm sure that you don't care how you get it as long as you get what you want, and the strike is eveidence to the fact. Passive agression is still agression, and greed no matter what form it takes is still just that; greed. It is a lust for power pure and simple.

Everyone here who fears the Mgmt team needs to take a major reality check. This is not Rome, you are not Cesar, and the Mgmt team is not a bunch of Senators ploting to kill you. Its Business, nothing more. You can't make an omlet without breaking a few eggs. Your all screaming mad because your little "Rebelion failed". Get over it. In the history of this country there has never been such a thing as fair or honest bussiness. Alexander Hamilton himself was a smuggler. (CSAR correct me if I'm wrong on that one).

Despite opinion, Steenland is simply doing a job. And a difficult one at that, made even harder by AMFA and the other Unions which project so much resistance. He and the rest of the Mgmt team are all just instruments of a greater authority. They are not the one's calling the shots, hate to break that to you. They are not in charge nor will they ever be. Northwest is not controled by a CEO, CFO and a bunch of other acronyms that I can't remember. They, like all Corporations in America, are controled by a Board of Directors. The Board hires and fires the upper Exec's, much like the people hire and fire Presidents. Just as we specify what we want for our country, they specify what they want for their company, or companies as the case may be. Put simply, Steanland and the others are just as much pawns in this as the rest of us, they just have a different job, with a different pay rate. And before you even say it, I'm not justifying their means.

I did not walk into this job like the pirate that you make me, and the other SCABS out to be. Like many of them I was simply making a buck in a world where jobs are not as plentiful as they once were. I am not out to destroy AMT wages, and if you think for one minute that little ol me is going to single handedly do that, you are smoking some serious crack. I am no different than anyone else here, I'm going to take care of my family first, then others. The difference is that I have a view point which is contrary to yours.

Finally, do not come to me with this "Brothers in arms" crap. I'm a vet myself having fought and shed blood for my country. I have personally laid to rest 32 of my brothers in arms, all having died in the line of duty, and not a one of them would have ever dared to entertain the idea of disobeying the orders of a superior Officer. Its called respect, something clearly lacking here. Being a soldier goes beyond fighting because you are told to. There is always the invisable element of trust. Also clearly lacking here. I'm not saying that all Leaders are always correct, take "W" for example. I may think he's dead wrong on a great many of his decisions. But he has never backed down. That is the true measure of a leader. It is doing what you feel is right even if it is contrary to popular opinion or desire.

Bob you show contempt for your "fellow man", "neighbor", brother in arms" in the majority of your posts by continually bashing, mocking and openly critizing that which does not fit into your point of view, and thats fine by me. You have clearly failed to realize what I was tought as a child. You have the right to your opinoin. Thats what makes this country great, the right to advocate at the top or your lungs that which I would spend a lifetime oposing at the top of mine.
So far I have heard you play the religion card, Military card, ethics, morality, values, and you have even degraded yourself by bringing Hitler into the discussion.Each time you fail, despite your misguided view of History and Economics. So now I ask you, what card are you going to play next. Its your move, and I'm waiting.

 

[Bagbelt]

You mean upheaval like burning buildings, and murdering employers. Dude, thats for the post office. Legal or not, you will never be able to convince me that the hands of the Mafia are still in Union pockets.

Employers had no qualms about killing strikers, and that was only my grandfathers generation. And give me a break on the mafia stuff,the RICO act pretty much bumped it down to pretenders. This is not the military, you are justifying everything on the premise that this is some sort of mission. You are being used to bring down mechanic wages to where they were in the 80's. And by upheaval I am in no way advocating violence. This whole industry is so screwed up it will fall apart on its own. Oh, and W don't have to back down, his kids aren't there.

 

[robbedagain]

JETTECH: MGMT had a choice to negogiate with AMFA. AMFA gave them their views, but NWA MGMT refused to hear any of it. They had you scabs training well in advance so that they knew they would be able to replace the hard working AMFA folks. AMFA stood up for what is their right to fight the corruption of the NWA MGMT crooks. While the employees are suffering huge losses in their pay, mgmt is lining up their pockets. You must be a part of them because you sure as he!! are defending them right down to a tea. You will never understand the hardship that the AMFA folks are going thru unless you go thru it yourself.
MGMT refused to negogiate in good faith and therefore they violated the RLA. You will never wake up and smell the coffee until the crooks of NWA MGMT tell you that they are taking your pay down to 12 bucks and your benefits are being sliced up again. As long as Neil Cohen is on board, you are going to give up a lot more either now or real soon! He did that to us at US and now soon to be NWA

 

[finman]

Hmmm, Neil doesn't happen to be your twin? Sounds to me like the same script and playwriter of U. Someone hit your "nerve". B)

What does the "nerve" have to do with anything. Is that code for something that I'm unaware of? Otherwise, why would you put it in quotes?

If nothing else, I guess this string has exposed which members of this board hate jews. The only "nerve" that strikes is one of disbelief that the level of discourse has degraded to such a hateful level.

 

[finman]

I do not recall ANY posts from anyone referencing hating anything other than replacement workers. So perhaps it is YOU that has an issue with Judaism?

BTW just exactly who is Jewish? Are you referencing Mr. Cohen? Are you assuming his faith & ethnic background by virtue of his name? That in and of itself could be construed as racism.

How do you know I'm not Jewish? I mean afterall I only buy cheap tickets so therefore I must be Jewish right?

Just for the record my uncle helped liberate Bergen-Belson so I'll thank you to keep your anti-semitic rants to yourself.

Besides don't you have someone elses job to steal?

You are the one that compared the reduction in jobs at NWA to Hitler's "cleansing". That in an off itself is jew-hating. It implies that they are morally equivalant, which would mean that you value jewish life so little that you see the murder of a jew to be no different than one of "your" people being forced out of a job.

It's debating 101. Don't bring Hitler and the Nazis into a discussion, it destroys all credibility you may have had to that point. That was the only point I was trying to make, and hopefully you'll heed the advice in future discourse. I don't think any further discussion on the topic is necessary.

 

[Kev3188]

Is it as bad as me getting mugged by angry passengers in the jetway because the plane is empty and they are still waiting on strollers?

Service failure? Sure. Same as a MTX delay? No way.

Two things to keep in mind:

1. BY NWA's own admission, the hubs are desparately short of ramp staff.

2.With a situation like you mentioned, 1 or 2 people may be upset. With a MTX delay, not only is everyone on that flight affected, but also those on every subsequent downline section that aircraft flies.

 

[local 12 proud]

“If the employees come first, then they're happy, ... A motivated employee treats the customer well. The customer is happy so they keep coming back, which pleases the shareholders. It's not one of the enduring Green mysteries of all time, it is just the way it works.â€￾

Herb Kelleher

 

[Kev3188]

I, for one, will be eternally grateful to the replacment workers if NWA is able to emerge as a viable, competitive airline.

What?

This attitude suprises me coming from you. Usually, in most of your posts you come off as someone who would no problem getting a job with whatever company you desire, yet here you sound almost terrified at the prospect of being on the market. If you're counting on the MTX operation saving the day for us all, you're in a for a big letdown.

 

[finman]

What?

This attitude suprises me coming from you. Usually, in most of your posts you come off as someone who would no problem getting a job with whatever company you desire, yet here you sound almost terrified at the prospect of being on the market. If you're counting on the MTX operation saving the day for us all, you're in a for a big letdown.

I love living in Minnesota and I love working for an airline. I wouldn't have any trouble moving to a different industry, but I just would rather not have to.

 

[PRINCESS KIDAGAKASH]

I love living in Minnesota and I love working for an airline. I wouldn't have any trouble moving to a different industry, but I just would rather not have to.

Well, when they cut your wages and benefits to below the poverty level, just how are you going to be able to afford to travel anywhere? Oh, I know. Your spouse will support your scab butt and the NWA job will only be for flight benefits. Just how low are you willing to scab for finman?

 

[CSAR GYRENE]

Jet Tech,

That was a very long and well written post designed to obfuscate the core issue addressed in my previous post(s). So since you FAILED to address the points here they are again. To actually ANSWER THESE QUESTIONS FOR ALL OF US is your current MISSION!

Please explain to ALL of us here just exactly how your decision to cross a picket line improved or added value to society.

"Did it help to raise wages for othe AMT's?

Did it help to stem the tide of outsourcing high wage jobs?

Did it build the tax base of the local community in which the work is located?"

Just a final thought. Capitalism by it's very nature has winners and losers. It is "US versus THEM". the "THEM" in the equation is the capitalist or Management. Their job is the accumulation of wealth either directly for themselves or for investors. As you pointed out greed rears its ugly head. The "US" is those who trade their services as Labor for a wage or salary. Just as the Capitalist seeks to maximize wealth or profit by paying as little as possible so to does the worker try to earn as much as he can as ROI of his/her time. There is a built in conflict. Their are essentially two ways a worker can effectively increase their earning potential. One is to have a skill set so marketable that you can to some extent name your price. That's kinda the path I took. The other is to bargain collectively to gain leverage in an economic system that inherently favors the wealthy yet allows opportunity for ANYONE to become wealthy. While flawed, Capitalism is the best system.

You & the others who chose to cross the picket lines have hurt every single wage earner in this country. You made a conscious decision to actively contribute to lowering the standard of living for everyone. I know your comeback will be the basic law of supply & demand and you're correct that there are to many AMT's chasing to few jobs. That fact alone will cause wages to decline. But I ask WHY CONTRIBUTE to the free fall of wages and benefits as eventually it will be your turn. I know you know business runs in cycles. What happens id NWA goes C-7? Further tightening the AMT marketplace and forcing wages down even more? What if it was YOUR actions that caused the other unions to make a stand at NWA?

I'm sure you're a nice guy and fun to have a beer with but do you not see what you've done? The only good that comes out of your conduct is you have a job doing something that you love. I'm asking you to look at the Total Cost of your actions, both for yourself and your chosen profession both immediate and long term. Me I couldn't do what you did. I work double shifts at Wendy's first. Do you realize that a General Manager at Wendy's with Salary & bonus makes MORE than a NWA AMT? Why? Look in the mirror. Your conduct has lowered the bar to the point where it's more profitable to be a Wendy's Manager than it is to fix a marvel of modern technology. Happy now?

PS: All you AMFA robots I'm no hapier with you then I am with Jet Tech. Your leaders couldn't organize a one car funeral. You're pissed that Jet Tech is on the property? You should be and your leadership is where the blame lies. These guys who crossed the picket line are only there because your leader fought the last war. NWA knew and beat you like a bastard step child. If you handled it right you might be working. AMFA's actions led to the events that caused NWA to go the path they did. So you guys bear a great deal of the blame. HOWEVER, crossing a picket line as a replacement is still WRONG!

Yes, probably, and Why is that relevant...its not my job to raise the taxes base, thats up local and national policy makers, which they do quite well enough when they leave well enough alone.

Well, when they cut your wages and benefits to below the poverty level, just how are you going to be able to afford to travel anywhere? Oh, I know. Your spouse will support your scab butt and the NWA job will only be for flight benefits. Just how low are you willing to scab for finman?

just curious...what exactly is the poverty level these days? I've spent enough time in third world countries to know that our poverty level is considered quite well to do in most of the world. Perhaps we should all be more thankful for what we have instead of whining about every little setback in our lives. This applies to A and P's, union, right to work people, military, civilian.....you get the picture. Best wishes to all....

 

[finman]

Well, when they cut your wages and benefits to below the poverty level, just how are you going to be able to afford to travel anywhere? Oh, I know. Your spouse will support your scab butt and the NWA job will only be for flight benefits. Just how low are you willing to scab for finman?

Sorry for the confusion, but I'm not a mechanic.

 

[Emil.Howes]

For months now I have listened to the most vile slander that I have ever heard in my life regarding the Northwest strike, replacement workers and direction of the company. Everyone from the AMFA Mechanics on strike to the flight attendants seem to do nothing but complain. I am proud to admit that I am a replacement worker, further more, I am very proud of what I have accomplished. That being said, I have just one simple message to the overwhelming pessimestic masses. edited by moderator If you are so unhappy with the way things are going, quit and find another job. I learned along time ago that your focus and attitude will determine your reality. You were born with the ability to make decisions, you have the ability to effect your reality and the way I see it you have two choices. Quit complaining and be happy with what you have, or continue to complain and be misserable. Now I may be just unusual, but from where I'm sitting, anyone who chooses to live in self-induced missery has got some serious mental issues. If you don't like the way that things are going, leave, but for Gods sake SHUT UP!!!!!

Scab.......... :down:

 

[PlayTheOdds]

Big E, you lay low for a month now and when you finally come out from under your pathetic little rock this is all you can come up with? I am very disappointed. I don't know why I should expect anything else but for some reason I am disappointed.