B
B.O.B.
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FWAAA said:
AA is not going to file BK anytime soon or at all.
Bankruptcy: Who's Next?
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AA is not going to file BK anytime soon or at all.
Isn't that what NW was saying as early as late spring? They were touting the order for the new jets, now look what happened. Only thing predictable about this industry is that NOTHING is predictable.
Look at the following article I found (and read the bold part):
Airlines
Deep Hatred At The Airlines
Mark Tatge, 09.15.05, 4:01 PM ET
CHICAGO - So both Northwest Airlines and Delta Air Lines are in bankruptcy. Even though most of the airline industry has landed in Chapter 11, does it solve the airline industry’s problems?
Not in a heartbeat. These problems are systemic. They stretch far beyond just paying pilots too much money, incompetent management, soaring jet fuel costs or not charging enough at the ticket counter.
The industry's problems are rooted in an antagonistic labor culture. Workers hate their jobs and take out their ire on customers.
Air travel is a miserable experience. People hate to fly. Yet travelers tolerate it because they don't have much of a choice. Driving from Atlanta to Chicago for a business meeting just isn't a solution.
So how did we get here? During the past four decades, the U.S. aviation system was designed and expanded by the federal government in cooperation with the airline industry. Airports were built with federal funds and municipal bonds. With the expansion came fat pay and benefit packages.
Air service was viewed as positive for the economy. And it was a great economic engine. The problem is that we can't afford to maintain what we (over) built. We have an aviation infrastructure centered on maintaining large fleets of airplanes that will fly to almost anywhere. Now, we can't afford to pay for it.
Six airlines are now in bankruptcy--UAL's (otc: UALAQ - news - people ) United Airlines, US Airways (otc: UAIRQ - news - people ), Delta, Northwest, ATA and Aloha Airlines. They could be joined by Continental Airlines (nyse: CAL - news - people ) and American Airlines, arguably the two best-managed legacy carriers. Something is seriously wrong here, and it isn't just that jet fuel is running $1.89 per gallon.
There needs to be a major revolution in how these businesses approach their markets--everything from how tickets are sold to where the airlines fly and how they serve customers. We need to change our air traffic control and rethink the past legacy of building massive airports.
Now, bankruptcy is being turned to in order to iron out these serious structural problems. Shrink. Lower costs. Cut routes. Trim employees. But what is being done to change the culture? The infrastructure? Nothing.
US Airways and United Airlines are the latest example--two carriers that had the bad dead idea several years ago of merging. Luckily, they were stopped.
Both airlines slashed costs. Now, they are attempting to reemerge from Chapter 11 protection with new capital from lenders.
So what have the brain trusts at these two airlines uncovered as the solution? Become lower-cost network carriers that fly a national route system that still caters to leisure travelers and business travelers, that still have frequent flier programs and maintain hubs. Use the Internet to sell fares.
If all this sounds like the same old United and US Airways, it is.
The airlines still have an army of grumpy employees. They have seen their paychecks slashed, their pensions cut or eliminated. Resentful workers are happy to remind you of that fact every time you fly.
For the airlines to succeed, they need to start treating their employees better and realize they are in a service business. It's going to be hard to do that in bankruptcy--especially since in the end, it all comes down to how much the workers feel they're valued.
Look at the following article I found (and read the bold part):
Airlines
Deep Hatred At The Airlines
Mark Tatge, 09.15.05, 4:01 PM ET
CHICAGO - So both Northwest Airlines and Delta Air Lines are in bankruptcy. Even though most of the airline industry has landed in Chapter 11, does it solve the airline industry’s problems?
Not in a heartbeat. These problems are systemic. They stretch far beyond just paying pilots too much money, incompetent management, soaring jet fuel costs or not charging enough at the ticket counter.
The industry's problems are rooted in an antagonistic labor culture. Workers hate their jobs and take out their ire on customers.
Air travel is a miserable experience. People hate to fly. Yet travelers tolerate it because they don't have much of a choice. Driving from Atlanta to Chicago for a business meeting just isn't a solution.
So how did we get here? During the past four decades, the U.S. aviation system was designed and expanded by the federal government in cooperation with the airline industry. Airports were built with federal funds and municipal bonds. With the expansion came fat pay and benefit packages.
Air service was viewed as positive for the economy. And it was a great economic engine. The problem is that we can't afford to maintain what we (over) built. We have an aviation infrastructure centered on maintaining large fleets of airplanes that will fly to almost anywhere. Now, we can't afford to pay for it.
Six airlines are now in bankruptcy--UAL's (otc: UALAQ - news - people ) United Airlines, US Airways (otc: UAIRQ - news - people ), Delta, Northwest, ATA and Aloha Airlines. They could be joined by Continental Airlines (nyse: CAL - news - people ) and American Airlines, arguably the two best-managed legacy carriers. Something is seriously wrong here, and it isn't just that jet fuel is running $1.89 per gallon.
There needs to be a major revolution in how these businesses approach their markets--everything from how tickets are sold to where the airlines fly and how they serve customers. We need to change our air traffic control and rethink the past legacy of building massive airports.
Now, bankruptcy is being turned to in order to iron out these serious structural problems. Shrink. Lower costs. Cut routes. Trim employees. But what is being done to change the culture? The infrastructure? Nothing.
US Airways and United Airlines are the latest example--two carriers that had the bad dead idea several years ago of merging. Luckily, they were stopped.
Both airlines slashed costs. Now, they are attempting to reemerge from Chapter 11 protection with new capital from lenders.
So what have the brain trusts at these two airlines uncovered as the solution? Become lower-cost network carriers that fly a national route system that still caters to leisure travelers and business travelers, that still have frequent flier programs and maintain hubs. Use the Internet to sell fares.
If all this sounds like the same old United and US Airways, it is.
The airlines still have an army of grumpy employees. They have seen their paychecks slashed, their pensions cut or eliminated. Resentful workers are happy to remind you of that fact every time you fly.
For the airlines to succeed, they need to start treating their employees better and realize they are in a service business. It's going to be hard to do that in bankruptcy--especially since in the end, it all comes down to how much the workers feel they're valued.
It's AArrogance like that which will make it so much more enjoyable for the rest of us when AA finally succumbs.NewHampshire Black Bears said:
We'll see. Check back in a year or so.
Or what is it that you think makes AA so immune to the forces affecting the industry? Something in the water in DFW? Divine (or Bush) intervention? Or do you think that AA management is just inherently more gifted than the management at other airlines?
We'll see.
(Oh, and BTW, cash wagers between two anonymous internet discussion board posters are really quite stupid, don't you think? If not, go ahead and post your real name and mailing address where I can send the check ...)
The whole point that the AMR BK naysayers are missing is that AMR would not go into BK b/c of necessity but rather strategy. They are on the downside of an uneven playing field now. Believe me...it is not hard to make billions of dollars go away on a balance sheet.
PRINCESS KIDAGAKASH
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AA WILL NEVER GO INTO BANKRUPTCY! They have the TWU which will give AA anything AA wants. AA's secret weapon is a maintenance base called TULSA. TULSA will vote YES again and again to concessions. Even DFW(fleet service that is ),AFW is filled with YES voters that will give and give till there is nothing left.
PRINCESS KIDAGAKASH
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The TWU will give American a total sellout concessions package that will never,ever be beaten. Even Southwest will have to file bankruptcy. It will be that bad. 
Remember the TWU has members that work for less than minimum wage. How did this happen? Very easy! A group of workers who were working for minimum wage voted in the TWU on the promise that the TWU would fight to get them a "living wage" law passed in the city in which they worked. Well the TWU failed to get this law passed and now these workers are still making minimum wages minus their union dues. Walmart corporation needs the TWU!
Remember the TWU has members that work for less than minimum wage. How did this happen? Very easy! A group of workers who were working for minimum wage voted in the TWU on the promise that the TWU would fight to get them a "living wage" law passed in the city in which they worked. Well the TWU failed to get this law passed and now these workers are still making minimum wages minus their union dues. Walmart corporation needs the TWU!
B
B.O.B.
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Fly said:
Are you using the UA crystal ball to see the future? Because the future is not so bright for UA!
AA is not going down. AA made a bigger profit then SWA in 2Q. AA is in the best shape out of any carrier. JetBlue is already predicted to loose big in 3Q and 4Q.
AA is just going to sit back, relax and enjoy the show. AA is going to wait and see what happens and then come and take what it wants!
The GORILLA is going to be just fine.
LMAOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!! So, when AA comes asking for MORE workrule cuts (Considering that their contract is ALREADY worse than United's BEFORE our first paycut for FA's), you just going to grease up? Looks like you seem to like the hind end hitting. Go for it ApeMan, do what you like.
PHX-F/A said:
CO did post a decent 2d quarter profit, but CO's got big debt repayments due and pension fund contributions in the next 12-18 months which may overwhelm their current liquidity. CO's current operations are sound, but impending cash crunch is likely to be the word in their 3d quarter 10-Q.
NewHampshire Black Bears
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Bear96 said:
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"YO" Bear96.
I NEVER suggested a cash wager. YOU KNOW EXACTLY WHAT I PROPOSED !!!!!!!!
AND so far, you've NOT responded to my(Gentlemens) Challenge !!!!!!
NH/BB's
NewHampshire Black Bears
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Fly said:
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
NOW NOW Ladies, "please return to your "neutral corners" !!
FLY,
Princess is RIGHT about the "weak sister" TWU, therefore It's a 90+ % surety that AA WON'T go into BK !!
Ps., FLY,
Help me please with Bear96. He seems to have misplaced his Intestinal Fortitude, with respect to the "gentlemans challenge" that I presented to him !!
"Ding-ding-ding"........................"Begin ROUND TWO" !!!!!
