Bush loans $13.4bil to automakers

[whatkindoffreshhell]

GM & Chrysler must show "financial viability" by the end of March.

Wanna bet?

 

[KCFlyer]

GM & Chrysler must show "financial viability" by the end of March.

Wanna bet?

Okay...for my friends on the right...I hear the argument about "personal responsiblity" all the time. Chrysler Corporation is owned by Cerberus Capital Mangagement. This group of "investors" has made hundreds of millions personally as part of the buyout of Chrysler. This group of investors has billions at their disposal - yet they won't put a nickle of it towards Chrysler because they have other "investments" they need to manage. Chrysler is no longer a publicly held company...it's owned by this "investment group". Why are we letting billionaires off the hook? If anything, they can put lipstick on the pig called Chrysler so that they can make even MORE money in an asset sale in the future. Many of you like to blame the UAW... how come there isn't an outcry to make this billionaire boys club pony up their OWN money before taking OUR money? I guess because if we "penalize" these investors, they might be less inclined to take steps to "create jobs". Here is a good article on how these investors are "creating jobs". While I oppose the bailout - I think that so many jobs in the auto industry are tied to the "big three" that letting them ALL fail would be devastating to the overall economy. But I think that of the big three...the ONE that has an ownership with billions of their own cash should be asked to either spend their OWN money to right the ship, or just let them fold. If they're gonna bailout - give all the money to GM...let Cerberus deal with Chrysler.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Good point(s) as usual KCF.

OK class,........lets review.

Ford needs NO $$$$.

Chrysler will be absorbed(probably)

GM will most likely get down to 3 "lines".(Chevy/Buick/Cadillac)

The UAW will make 1(ONLY) concession, most likely the Job Bank program,

And Finally.................W, nervous about his Legacy(WHAT A FRIGGIN "J O K E" ), winds up being "the Republican on the hook" for bailing out Detroit,.........AND.......thwarting...the REPUGS, who desperately tried to turn this into a ..RED state ..vs...BLUE state...Diabolical..UNION BUSTING SCAM !

So SORRY..Red State REPUGS,but.....Y O U R ..president just "gave it to YOU in the shorts"


I've got to say..............that waking up every morning(since 11/4/2008) is becoming a daily JOY, (coupled with "crashing" gas prices)

Poor Rush BIMBO. he and the..."I wanna be just like Rush, I wanna be JUST LIKE Rush".......MORON, sean hannity, are left with NOTHING, to spew their BILE and DIARRHEA over, other than bashing their (getting STALE) nemesis.......DUMB ol' Blago !!!!!!

 

[KCFlyer]

First rule of business is NEVER use your own money.

But ask for all kinds of tax breaks and abatements...and in this case - HANDOUTS.

 

[KCFlyer]

K C Flyer,

If I contact you and tell you "Hey KC I'm really in a bind here in PineyLand I sure could use $14,000 to pay off my credit card debt" and you turn around and say "OK Bob, sure no problem"

Then kindly explain what I have done wrong?

GM and Chrsyler asked and Bush said "Sure No Problem"

Rising up in righteous indignation against the Billionaires at Cerberus Capital Mangagement is just plain silly and smacks of the typical class envy we see on the left. Personally I applaud their efforts to maximize their investment. If the US government is dumb enough to give them money then they should be applauded for being smart enough to take it.

Call it class envy if you want Bob...but to use your analogy....I come up to Piney with my pockets overflowing with cash asking you if you would pay my mortgage for the next couple of months because I had other things I would rather spend that money on. You'd just hand the money over...right?

My point with Cerebus is that they BOUGHT Chrysler. One would think that these high caliber investors would know what they were buying. They have BILLIONS on hand of their own money...and they won't spend a nickle of it on Chrysler...instead they are asking ME to put MY money towards saving their investment. Did you read the Business Week article? They BANKRUPTED Mervyns and put 30,000 people out of work...but they certainly "maximized their investment". In the case of Chrysler, I'd much prefer that THEY used their own money to bring thing up to snuff rather than pocket hundreds of millions of dollars and have ME pay to fix up their investment.

 

[whatkindoffreshhell]

For $8bil (the market cap of Ford,GM & Chrysler last week) the feds could've bought out all three automakers on the open market then put them all into Ch11 bankruptcy and created a healthy auto industry.

But for now the automaker execs keep their cushy jobs and the UAW can keep spending $17mil on viagara.

Who really believes the Dems and Obama will adminster the proper medicine to the auto industry?

Today we nationalized the Detroit 3 automakers.

Fat lady where are you when we need you?

 

[whatkindoffreshhell]

Bottom line in the Mervyn's case is if you don't like the way the investment group does business don't buy a Sebring Convertable.

I can't fight Wal-Mart, but I sure as balls don't have to spend a dime in their stores.

Exactly.

And the market (you and I) have spoken. We are not buying cars from the Detroit 3.

So why the bailout? What is going to change?

 

[Gilding the Lily]

Okay...for my friends on the right...I hear the argument about "personal responsiblity" all the time. Chrysler Corporation is owned by Cerberus Capital Mangagement. This group of "investors" has made hundreds of millions personally as part of the buyout of Chrysler. This group of investors has billions at their disposal - yet they won't put a nickle of it towards Chrysler because they have other "investments" they need to manage. Chrysler is no longer a publicly held company...it's owned by this "investment group". Why are we letting billionaires off the hook? If anything, they can put lipstick on the pig called Chrysler so that they can make even MORE money in an asset sale in the future. . . . If they're gonna bailout - give all the money to GM...let Cerberus deal with Chrysler.

KC,

While I understand you concern, I think it is a bit misdirected. Yes, Cerberus (a private equity firm) owns a majority equity share in Chrysler. But who owns Cerberus? Yes, there are likely some fat cats that own major equity stakes in Cerberus, but many of the Cerberus limited partners are Pension funds, Retirement funds, and other similar funds. This means that the average Joe-Plumber is invested in Chrysler. Which means that a failure of Chrysler would effect the same people that would be effected by a failure at GM or Ford. Second, these funds that invest blue collar worker's funds invest in certain private equity firms because they have covenants that restrict the PE firm from investing too much money in a certain entity. Cerberus has met that maximum for Chrysler. Thus, it cannot put more money in Chrysler without getting approval from its limited partners, including approval from the funds that invest money for the Joe-the-Plumbers of the world.

 

[UnionAMT]

K C Flyer,

If I contact you and tell you "Hey KC I'm really in a bind here in PineyLand I sure could use $14,000 to pay off my credit card debt" and you turn around and say "OK Bob, sure no problem"

Then kindly explain what I have done wrong?

GM and Chrsyler asked and Bush said "Sure No Problem"

Rising up in righteous indignation against the Billionaires at Cerberus Capital Mangagement is just plain silly and smacks of the typical class envy we see on the left. Personally I applaud their efforts to maximize their investment. If the US government is dumb enough to give them money then they should be applauded for being smart enough to take it.

Funny... I always thought that are constitution said that all men are created equal. And that are rights include the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. I don't recall anything about a special right that the wealthy have furthering an agenda of classism. Nor do I remember anything in the constitution about government,bankers,financiers, corporations and others banding together to destroy our job base(which they're doing), in order to exploit human beings for the purpose of making more money for themselves, having fascist dictatorial powers over the government, and taking away any chance we have for happiness.
Funny isn't it? I'm sure you'd be the first to call yourself a conservative. Which in historical terms means one who would strictly follow the constitution.
However in practice, you more closely resemble Joseph Stalin.

 

[delldude]

So SORRY..Red State REPUGS,but.....Y O U R ..president just "gave it to YOU in the shorts"

Duh...Bears.....He just let one go for the Dem's and the Messiah to wrangle out if you failed to notice.

'W' is laughing all the way to the Fed....

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Duh...Bears.....He just let one go for the Dem's and the Messiah to wrangle out if you failed to notice.

'W' is laughing all the way to the Fed....

dell,

Your scenario is(at this point) Hypothetical.

My scenario is now FACT, meaning that..W's (repug) name is on the paperwork, and MOST IMPORTANT of all, he stifled the Red State Senators, from trying to Bust the UAW

 

[delldude]

dell,

Your scenario is(at this point) Hypothetical.

My scenario is now FACT, meaning that..W's (repug) name is on the paperwork, and MOST IMPORTANT of all, he stifled the Red State Senators, from trying to Bust the UAW

You better double check.....UAW and big three have until Mar 31 to come to grips or all bets are off.And yes.....he plopped it all on the Big 'O'.


See Chrysler shut down and all those employees are home for the holidays collecting full pay on our dime.Cool..... :down:

 

[KCFlyer]

You better double check.....UAW and big three have until Mar 31 to come to grips or all bets are off.And yes.....he plopped it all on the Big 'O'.


See Chrysler shut down and all those employees are home for the holidays collecting full pay on our dime.Cool..... :down:

And Cerberus Capital Management investors are enjoying a VERY nice Christmas and don't have to worry about funding Chrysler....even cooler.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

This is a rare situation(Piney) where I will DISAGREE with KC Flyer, meaning your point about the Chrysler "fat cats" who took the gamble(and WON) to get where they are now $$$$$$$.

Fair enough !

BUT,

The same can be said about the UAW, meaning they played their cards(in a certain manner) and got themselves to where they are now $$$$$

So anyone "bitchin' + complainin" about them in a public forum is "nonproductive", just as the example in the first paragraph above.

Agreed ?????

 

[KCFlyer]

This is a rare situation(Piney) where I will DISAGREE with KC Flyer, meaning your point about the Chrysler "fat cats" who took the gamble(and WON) to get where they are now $$$$$$$.

Fair enough !

BUT,

The same can be said about the UAW, meaning they played their cards(in a certain manner) and got themselves to where they are now $$$$$

So anyone "bitchin' + complainin" about them in a public forum is "nonproductive", just as the example in the first paragraph above.

Agreed ?????

Bears has a point Piney....those fat cats who "maximized their investments" have killed other companies...why is the UAW so bad if they happen to kill one too? All they did was "maximize their investment" for their members.