Capacity and the Airlines in Bankruptcy...

[safety stud]

Delta reported this week a 2.1 billion dollar loss for the first quarter. After BK related expenses it came to a loss of 365 million dollars. Northwest airlines is in BK and they too are reporting huge losses. Why is it no one is calling for the liquidation of those big players like they did with USAirways. Everyone and there grandmother wanted U to go chapter 7. Isn't it interesting that you don't hear much clammering about those two going belly up. Wouldn't the airline industry benefit by their demise? Why is there less talk of them going out than U had. Is it because U has always been a scapegoat for the industry? Back in the late 70's and 80's USAirways was the darling of the industry. U capatalized on deregulation. After the downfall of Peoples Express, New York Air, Braniff, Eastern, TWA, Ozark, Pan Am the industry made up the losses by expansion. Is the industry now on it's next phase of revamp. Are there other airlines who's days are numbered? Shouldn't the government get involved in saying there's too much capacity... Why NOT let a few (regardless of who they are)airlines go under... With fuel costs at a record high and no relief in sight. Wouldn't the industry be better off without them...

 

[PITbull]

Don't wish any airlines' demise, as it will cost thousands of jobs. I just hope they are smarter than we were in negotiations, specifically NW who is highly unioninized.

Unfortunately, U has set the "blue print" for all other airline BOD and Executives to bust unions, use BK to screw the creditors, leassors etc.. and keep the airline going to bring in their monthly hefty pay checks.

At U, our membership didn't stand strong or united. That's is because the leadership was divided on whether to belive the airline threats of liquidation or not. There were many factions within the leaderships of the unions that were divided. AFA, and ALPA and even leaders of IAM. In contrast, I viewed CWA leadership as the most unified. In the BK court hearings, the attorneys of CWA and IAM were the most magnificent. AFA was mediocre, and ALPA's legal team sucked big...you would think they were sharing a seat with the Company's lawyers. 🙄

IMO, U was ripe for liquidation, but the BOD, stakeholders and execs would never opt to give up their huge monthly paychecks. I knew the liquidations were nothing more than threats.

 

[DCAflyer]

Don't wish any airlines' demise, as it will cost thousands of jobs. I just hope they are smarter than we were in negotiations, specifically NW who is highly unioninized.

PitBull is right. As hurtful as it was for other airline employees, Delta and American employees being chief among them, to wish our demise, I would like to come out of this saying "What you wished upon us, I will never wish on you."

I could forsee the following situations:

1. DL and NW merging (the most likely scenario, is it a coincidence that they filed BK in the same court on the same day?).

2. PAR using its influence to strategically transfer some of NW assets to LCC and then liquidate NW, which would in turn probably cause a DL liquidation and leave CO ripe for picking by UAL. There would then be no need for a domestic code share and LCC would be free to develop an alliance with KLM/Air France. Under this scenario, the three surviving legacy carriers would be American, United (with CO and some employees folded in) and LCC (with NW assets and some employees folded in).

 

[PITbull]

DCA,

Thats highly speculative...imo, extremely doubtful. CO is not in liquidation or BK mode. Not even a threat of jeopardy. They are doing remarkably well. AA is in good shape , and I highly doubt, no, extremely doubt that NW and DL would ever merge...union to non union bringing two BK carriers together.

Its the same specualtion folks had for the past 4 years that U and UAL would merge or taken over .Calling for a UCT...pure speculation that United would fall off the cliff or U for that matter.

Ain't happening. The rules of BK engagment are set for the companies to survive and start over calling it..."restructuring".

I have to quote again what Einstein said..."repeating the same behavior over and over again expecting a different outcome is "insanity".

 

[Charlie_Tuna]

Don't wish any airlines' demise, as it will cost thousands of jobs. I just hope they are smarter than we were in negotiations, specifically NW who is highly unioninized.

Unfortunately, U has set the "blue print" for all other airline BOD and Executives to bust unions, use BK to screw the creditors, leassors etc.. and keep the airline going to bring in their monthly hefty pay checks.

At U, our membership didn't stand strong or united. That's is because the leadership was divided on whether to belive the airline threats of liquidation or not. There were many factions within the leaderships of the unions that were divided. AFA, and ALPA and even leaders of IAM. In contrast, I viewed CWA leadership as the most unified. In the BK court hearings, the attorneys of CWA and IAM were the most magnificent. AFA was mediocre, and ALPA's legal team sucked big...you would think they were sharing a seat with the Company's lawyers. 🙄

IMO, U was ripe for liquidation, but the BOD, stakeholders and execs would never opt to give up their huge monthly paychecks. I knew the liquidations were nothing more than threats.

I am trying to figure out what you were saying in your post.

Were the threats of liquidation just that a threat even though IYO U was ripe for liquidation?

Do you mean even though U was ripe for liquidation the BOD, stakeholders and execs would never opt to give up their huge monthly paychecks. So that gave the unions leverage in voting no and standing up to U and the judge so as not to get raked over coals as they did?

Or do you mean liquidation was a better option then getting raked over the coals as the employees did even thought that option saved a few jobs?

Did you mean the unions should have made U a sacrificial lamb so as not to have U become the blueprint of the airlines, BOD's etc?

What do you think would have worked?

Don't get me wrong I agree the employees were totally walked over and screwed.

 

[RowUnderDCA]

2. PAR using its influence to strategically transfer some of NW assets to LCC and then liquidate NW, which would in turn probably cause a DL liquidation and leave CO ripe for picking by UAL. There would then be no need for a domestic code share and LCC would be free to develop an alliance with KLM/Air France. Under this scenario, the three surviving legacy carriers would be American, United (with CO and some employees folded in) and LCC (with NW assets and some employees folded in).

hmmmm... funny I had a dream like that last night

 

[LGA Fleet Service]

Folks, you won't see a major go out of business.As long as managment can dump pensions, stiff creditors, retirees and employees in order to attract new capital, they will continue to do just that.

When will a major actually go into the history books?

When investment banks, aircraft manufacturers and leasing companies stop throwing money at these companies.