Competitive Issues - ALPA Response

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chipmunn

Guest
[P]The US ALPA MEC has scheduled a Special Meeting that will begin tomorrow. Major agenda items are management requests for increased affiliate carrier 50 & 70-seat RJ expansion and pension modifications.[/P]
[P]Although ALPA members are bound by confidentiality requirements and are being tight lipped, I suspect we will see the pilots provide corporate relief, which will improve prospects for the future and contribute to the company obtaining the loan guarantee.[/P]
[P]Those parties interested in the success with US will learn more later this week when the November 6 ALPA meeting concludes Thursday or Friday and with the results of the November 7 bankruptcy court Omnibus hearing.[/P]
[P]Meanwhile, it seems AA is feeling signifnat pressure with AMR CEO Don Carty telling employees in a recorded message the airline has increased its cost cut target from $3 to $4 billion per year. Carty said that the airline has already identified $2 billion in structural cost cuts and that AMR is halfway to its goal of being able to compete in an environment where price is king.It is clear that we can compete on price and win market share. But we can''t compete on price with our cost structure, he said.[/P]
[P]Chip[BR][BR] [/P]
 

DakotaHC8

Member
Aug 20, 2002
64
0
Chip,

It has been out front that management is seeking authority to operate 70 seat RJ's outside of MDA, but could you clear up the remainder. Is the request from airways to allow additional RJ's outside of the requirments of jets for jobs as well? To add to the original allotment of 70 regional jets that can be operated without participation in JFJ...?

I would assume that the ability to find interested vendors willing to participate in JFJ has dried up. Is this the feeling that you have as well?

And one last question, can you verify the previous post that detail4ed the loss of LGA and DCA slots by Midway due to the new entrant clause.
 

autofixer

Veteran
Aug 20, 2002
1,804
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Humm, price is king? I think I have been saying that for months. Thank you Mr. Carty. Who really cares about service or on-time performance...these are secondary issues; issues you consider after your trip has begun or completed. It is simply about the formula: revenue minus costs, equals profit/(loss).
 
OP
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chipmunn

Guest
[BR][BR][FONT face=Times New Roman size=3]Dakota:[/FONT][BR][BR][FONT face=Times New Roman size=3]Jerry Glass has requested to meet with the Mainline ALPA MEC during the 2-day meeting which begins today, November 6. There will be more news on this issue after the meeting concludes Thursday night or Friday.[/FONT][BR][BR][FONT face=Times New Roman size=3]There will also be significant news from Thursday's bankruptcy hearing held by Judge Mitchell. [BR][BR]Chip[/FONT]
 

Winglet

Veteran
Aug 20, 2002
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AA's pilot contract right now is still cheaper by about 10% than UAL's concessionary contract and way cheaper (about 30%) than Delta's. I don't know about US Air. It's hard to keep up with the concessions there.
 

UAL777flyer

Veteran
Aug 20, 2002
730
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Yeah, things ought to be getting really ugly in Dallas pretty soon. AA is finally facing up to the reality that they will have no choice but to see employee pay/benefit cuts. They simply don't have a choice because they won't be able to effectively compete with a dramatically restructured UA. They compete head to head with UA in more markets than any other two airlines. I don't foresee a smooth ride for AA in their continued efforts to cut costs.
 

luv2fly

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Aug 21, 2002
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[blockquote]
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On 11/6/2002 10:32:52 AM UAL777flyer wrote:

Yeah, things ought to be getting really ugly in Dallas pretty soon. AA is finally facing up to the reality that they will have no choice but to see employee pay/benefit cuts. They simply don't have a choice because they won't be able to effectively compete with a dramatically restructured UA. They compete head to head with UA in more markets than any other two airlines. I don't foresee a smooth ride for AA in their continued efforts to cut costs.
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[/blockquote]
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DLFlyer31

Senior
Aug 20, 2002
444
0
[blockquote]
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On 11/6/2002 11:50:45 AM AOG-N-IT wrote:
How can any carrier pay 30% more for something...and expect to remain viable? I have asked this question a zillion times regarding U and it's parity scheme of the past.
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[/blockquote]

DL remains viable because the DL pilots decided to take the money and let DL mgmt have a boat load of RJ's. For the more senior DL pilots it works out pretty well, as they get paid well and are relatively secure in their jobs. For DL's junior pilots, they get screwed as they are being furloughed and replaced by DL's vast array of RJ carriers.

Going forward, Mullin will likely still not ask for concessions. Instead, he'll let the DL pilots keep their pay in return for codeshare approval (assuming the DOT allows it) and maybe some flexibility on DL's new LCC.
 

AOG-N-IT

Veteran
Aug 19, 2002
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DLFlyer31, Thanks for the clarification...So essentially U has been screwed by our pilots failing to work with the company in the past , to facilitate the needed RJ's..and the much needed feed that they would have provided us.

I realize that the Junior People always get screwed...Tis the nature of the beast

Your summation does lead us to believe that U's problems ranged beyond the simple failures of a number of past leadership regimes..If we were to make a direct comparison of DL's current position versus U's

I just want to be perfectly clear about where/whom my anger should be directed toward...when I make the walk away from this industry , against my own will.
 

AOG-N-IT

Veteran
Aug 19, 2002
1,132
1
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[blockquote]
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On 11/6/2002 11:35:06 AM Winglet wrote:

AA's pilot contract right now is still cheaper by about 10% than UAL's concessionary contract and way cheaper (about 30%) than Delta's.
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[/blockquote]
Those Poor people...how will they ever make ends meet?
 

AOG-N-IT

Veteran
Aug 19, 2002
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Winglet...I was not making any fun of the Furloughee's circumstance!! I'm getting ready to become one myself this week possibly.

I just have to laugh at the range of different compensation levels...for people providing an alike service at the different carriers of the size being reviewed.

How can any carrier pay 30% more for something...and expect to remain viable? I have asked this question a zillion times regarding U and it's parity scheme of the past.
 

AOG-N-IT

Veteran
Aug 19, 2002
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[blockquote]
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On 11/6/2002 1:08:55 PM DLFlyer31 wrote:

[blockquote]
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I would still tend to leave most of the blame on US's management. I'm not saying US's pilots are totally innocent, but I still believe Wolf & Co. are to blame for US's lack of RJ's.

I am sorry to hear you are being pushed out of US. I hope you can find a career that is rewarding whether it be with another airline or in a different industry.
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[/blockquote]
I tend to blame Wolf and crew for failing us in a number of areas beyond just the RJ issue.

I also lay blame for the structure and culture on the leadership of U , going all the way back to Edwin Colodny..and to a larger degree Seth Schoefield after that.

Other carriers such as DL were making major strides towards RJ's while Wolf and Gangwhal were still toying around at UAL.

The need for RJ's providing a comfortable and passenger friendly feed was demonstrated ,and a known fact of need prior to Wolf & Crew taking over the helm here.

Wolf may have not made the need plain enough or clear enough to our ALPA people?..and it was likely because has history has proven..He had NO Plan B beyond dressing up U for a sell-off to the most highest bidder (UAL)

ALPA was as you stated , hardly innocent by thier constant resistance to contractual change to provide additional RJ's...all they cared about was thier own swollen ranks..and inflated earnings ,for as long as they could ride the Gravy Train.

Well times changed...and we failed to adapt to the need for change ,andOur Gravy Train became de-railed even prior to Sept.11th 2001....that date just solidified all the failures in the past...and has likely doomed 40%+ of our employee's for good. It will take nothing short of a miracle for the remaining 60% to not suffer an alike fate.

I have been planning and saving for the eventuality that I'm possibly going to suffer at the hands of U...Sure I'll rebound in regards to income..sure I'll find a job with just as good of an insurance program too! , but nothing will ever replace the thrill and love I have had with this business. I just wish I hadn't hitched my wagon to a falling star.
 

DLFlyer31

Senior
Aug 20, 2002
444
0
[blockquote]
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On 11/6/2002 12:22:00 PM AOG-N-IT wrote:
Your summation does lead us to believe that U's problems ranged beyond the simple failures of a number of past leadership regimes..If we were to make a direct comparison of DL's current position versus U's

I just want to be perfectly clear about where/whom my anger should be directed toward...when I make the walk away from this industry , against my own will.
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[/blockquote]

I would still tend to leave most of the blame on US's management. I'm not saying US's pilots are totally innocent, but I still believe Wolf & Co. are to blame for US's lack of RJ's.

I am sorry to hear you are being pushed out of US. I hope you can find a career that is rewarding whether it be with another airline or in a different industry.