Congress Weighs Proposed Fix For Pension System

[FWAAA]

My incoming "cash flow" has been reduce by at least 17.5%.......

[post="279916"][/post]​

Yes, we know. Owens reminds us all the time. Paycuts suck, but so does having your employer run out of cash. And AA did what it had to do two years ago to keep from running out of cash.

If UAL and USAir don't fold, it is likely that your pay will be cut even more, as the domestic overcapacity plaguing the USA isn't gonna just magically disappear. Fares must rise, and they ain't gonna rise until there are fewer domestic legacy hub/spoke seats for sale.

 

[TWU informer]

Yes, we know.   Owens reminds us all the time.   Paycuts suck, but so does having your employer run out of cash.  And AA did what it had to do two years ago to keep from running out of cash. 

If UAL and USAir don't fold, it is likely that your pay will be cut even more, as the domestic overcapacity plaguing the USA isn't gonna just magically disappear.  Fares must rise, and they ain't gonna rise until there are fewer domestic legacy hub/spoke seats for sale.

[post="279925"][/post]​

Seems to me that UAL and USAir are going to emerge from BK with a clear cost advantage over AA.

So, seems "running out of cash" may have been the better business path.

BTW, if I was given a choice of being led by either you (FWAA) or (Bob)Owens, I would cast a vote for Bob.

 

[Buck]

Yes, we know. Owens reminds us all the time. Paycuts suck, but so does having your employer run out of cash. And AA did what it had to do two years ago to keep from running out of cash.

If UAL and USAir don't fold, it is likely that your pay will be cut even more, as the domestic overcapacity plaguing the USA isn't gonna just magically disappear. Fares must rise, and they ain't gonna rise until there are fewer domestic legacy hub/spoke seats for sale.

[post="279925"][/post]​

Whatever happen to cyclical layoffs?

Why is it the common business practice of the business unions to lower wages and benefits that tenure has acheived?

Why must fares rise now? The cash reserves of most legacy carriers have virtually been depleted.

 

[MCI transplant]

Can we get our concessions back then?

[post="279919"][/post]​

<_< No because the TWU didn't put a "Snap-Back" clause in our contract!!!

 

[AMFAMAN]

<_< No because the TWU didn't put a "Snap-Back" clause in our contract!!!

[post="279944"][/post]​

But the twu did sell it at my local with a snap-back on vacation coming in 2006. I recently asked my manager about the snap-back coming up this year and he stated that was the funniest thing he's heard all week. Considering that this so-called snap-back was only on the "sell the contract" flyer and not in the contract, I can safely assume that my manager is correct in saying, "their is no snap-back, it's permanment."

 

[aafsc]

Seems to me that UAL and USAir are going to emerge from BK with a clear cost advantage over AA.

So, seems "running out of cash" may have been the better business path.

BTW, if I was given a choice of being led by either you (FWAA) or (Bob)Owens, I would cast a vote for Bob.

[post="279937"][/post]​

If "running out of cash" had happened at AA 2 years ago, all heavy checks would have been outsourced resulting in massive layoffs (like UA), 2 maintanence bases(AFW and MCI) would have been shut down (like UA), you would be making less hourly and would have lost your pensions and other retirement benefits (like UA). Unless AA does more and moves much faster in terms of reducing non-labor overhead costs (there is still a SIGNIFICANT amount of non labor overhead that can be cut) and puts it's aircraft where they will produce the most returns, AA will have to go bankrupt to walk away from it's debts like UA and US did in order to be competitive with these carriers. When/if they go bk, they will cut your throat and bleed you dry just like UA and US did to their employees because as we have all seen, the bankruptcy judges gleefully allow this. But look at the bright side, most of the AMTs have had a job for the past 2 years making $30/hr and have had plenty of time to prepare for the worst. And if you are not prepared by now, you had best get started. I am fully prepared myself for the worst case senario at AA.

 

[Boomer]

If "running out of cash" had happened at AA 2 years ago, all heavy checks would have been outsourced resulting in massive layoffs (like UA), 2 maintanence bases(AFW and MCI) would have been shut down (like UA), you would be making less hourly and would have lost your pensions and other retirement benefits (like UA). Unless AA does more and moves much faster in terms of reducing non-labor overhead costs (there is still a SIGNIFICANT amount of non labor overhead that can be cut) and puts it's aircraft where they will produce the most returns, AA will have to go bankrupt to walk away from it's debts like UA and US did in order to be competitive with these carriers. When/if they go bk, they will cut your throat and bleed you dry just like UA and US did to their employees because as we have all seen, the bankruptcy judges gleefully allow this. But look at the bright side, most of the AMTs have had a job for the past 2 years making $30/hr and have had plenty of time to prepare for the worst. And if you are not prepared by now, you had best get started. I am fully prepared myself for the worst case senario at AA.

[post="279957"][/post]​

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According to your scenario above, the TWU like the IAM and all the other Unions would have fared the same: you're answer is that all Unions were faced with the same outcome so the TWU gave a "little" more and hammered their Union Brothers a "little" deeper than needed to hold the inevitable at bay a "little" longer.

Sounds a "little" like an International Officer trying to justify a "little" screwing over of the membership to keep the dues flowing.

"Little" wonder the TWU will be replaced in a "little" while.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

A GOOD point FWAAA !!!

NH/BB's

[post="279903"][/post]​

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Buck,
You absolutely correct about your 17.5% LESS cash flow !!

But the part of FWAAA's post that I was agreeing with was that IF intrest rates go up(ultimately a higher return on AA's investments) that AA's "DB" problem "might" become a "thing of the past"

Nothing MORE, nothing LESS.

NH/BB's

 

[Wretched Wrench]

AA sems to have painted themselves into a corner. Too poor to be profitable, and too rich to do the bankruptcy thing. I suspect they would prefer either one or the other.

 

[TWU informer]

AA sems to have painted themselves into a corner. Too poor to be profitable, and too rich to do the bankruptcy thing. I suspect they would prefer either one or the other.

[post="279999"][/post]​

Oh Come ON!

AA and the TWU have the best business plan.

Keep everyone employed, increase capacity putting seats back in, have pajama parites, blow smoke up vision 2025 voters in Tulsa, and sit and watch as fuel and low prices consume everything we "work together" to achieve.

Oh and don't forget, recruit union workers to manage the company so when this business plan fails, Arpey and Management cannot be held accountable.

This whole scenario and postion we are in makes me sick, but I cannot afford half pay, so I go to work ill.

 

[Wretched Wrench]

This whole scenario and postion we are in makes me sick, but I cannot afford half pay, so I go to work ill.

[post="280031"][/post]​

Wannabee retirees are reminded that calling sick any time in your last four years reduces your retirement, as well.

 

[Buck]

Wannabee retirees are reminded that calling sick any time in your last four years reduces your retirement, as well.

[post="280076"][/post]​

But only for the mechanics correct?

 

[j7915]

But only for the mechanics correct?

[post="280094"][/post]​

Yup Buck, those F/C folks who you claim can't understand amts and should not represent them DID NOT loose half of their sickpay. Maybe negotiating skills bear no relation to how clever you are with your hands, or how vast a load of responsibility you carry on your shoulders. You know sign log books on the line etc.

 

[TWU informer]

Yup Buck, those F/C folks who you claim can't understand amts and should not represent them DID NOT loose half of their sickpay. Maybe negotiating skills bear no relation to how clever you are with your hands, or how vast a load of responsibility you carry on your shoulders. You know sign log books on the line etc.

[post="280109"][/post]​

And now the great defender of lower pay and benefits comes to degrade the Mechanic Profession.

Yep, he is TWU alright!

 

[Boomer]

Yup Buck, those F/C folks who you claim can't understand amts and should not represent them DID NOT loose half of their sickpay. Maybe negotiating skills bear no relation to how clever you are with your hands, or how vast a load of responsibility you carry on your shoulders. You know sign log books on the line etc.

[post="280109"][/post]​

---------------------------------------------------

Yep j7915,

We got saddled with an additional concessions package because FSC agreed to a deal, with the CompAAny, that did not meet the ask from AA so the TWU just added that amount back into the M&R concessions total.

There is no negotiations skill to it: CAArpey and little understand the concept quite well. The wage rates for skilled labor in TUL, DFW, AFW, and MCI are well below those rates on the coasts.

You and your's are quite willing for those of us living in high cost areas to bear the brunt of givebacks.

Footprints or ashes Brother, I think you know what I'm referring to.