Edward
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Reminder to all posters to be careful in your use of language & to avoid personal attacks. You may comment on a topic but not another poster.
Corporate Security Raids LGA Locker Room
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eolesen
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Just goes to prove that if a thread goes on too long it will decend into one of three topics:
1) The TWU needs to be replaced
2) TWA was a mistake
3) 2003 paycuts
I think we've had flavors of all three now on this thread.....
1) The TWU needs to be replaced
2) TWA was a mistake
3) 2003 paycuts
I think we've had flavors of all three now on this thread.....
Possibly because any thread that has to do with the TWU or their ability to represent will always come back to their need to be replaced. Eric I rarely agree with you but I do respect your opinions you have insight into certain sides of management. That said you seem to lack a understanding of the mechanics As far as TWA is concerned it was a mistake maybe there were some reasons to do the deal at the time never the less clearly I was a mistake.
The 2003 concessions who knows which way was right are wrong but if AA is forced into bankruptcy this time around and has difficulty finding debtor in possession financing one will wonder would we all been better off had this happened in 2003!
LGA Fleet Service
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In before the lock! B)
WingNaPrayer
Veteran
Had AMR filed in 03 while the government was busy looking the other way as far as airlines were concerned post 9/11, it would have been a bloodbath! The airlines were able to get away with murder as far as labor and it's contracts after 9/11 and no voices on behalf of labor were heard in D.C.
I believe that if AMR is forced into a bankruptcy position in the next 12-18 months that there isn't going to be anyone foolish enough to finance airline bankruptcy debt and they will end up in liquidation bankruptcy. No one will want to finance them then watch them fritter away the money on silly things like $200 dollar fuel for the fleet!
Either way, the executives are taken care of. Their pensions and payoffs are all protected to the tune of millions being held just for them in bankruptcy proof accounts. The airline may go under, and all of it's employees end up in bankruptcy just like the carrier, but the executives and their families will be well taken care of.
It has to just suck big time to work for an airline in the 21st century!
T
The Goose
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There are many yet-to-be-tested goodies in the revised bankruptcy laws that took effect in October 2005 as it applies to corporations looking for a business advantage.
For some reason, I tend to believe the AA press people when they say there won't be a filing (on planebuzz, I believe) as there's far to much for the executives to lose. Not sure if their stash would be "bankruptcy proof" as it was claimed. I'd love to see how the court would rule on this but, like many others, nobody, me included, wants their employer to be the test case, but rest assured, someone will be first.
As far as mistakes go, here we are right about here - if there were mistakes made, it's done. Let's do what we can with what we have left and take care of what business we might be able to accomplish (like booting the TWU).
edited 1830:
To add to limit's comment - If AMR does file for chapter 11 protection, the filing will have been thought out and with agreement of all creditors; it will be done solely to gut the three union contracts.
Any airline, simply because of the outstanding leases and such is worth more alive than dead to the leasing companies. If any lease is terminated through a chapter 11 proceeding, that leasing company has to find a new home for the leased asset(s). That would be rather difficult now. Far better to throw good money after bad taking a chance on losing than take your stuff back having it sit idle, producing exactly zero revenue and losing for certain.
I have to disagree with you on this.
As a matter of fact I am willing to bet the mortgage that financing will not be an issue.
The terms might be harsh, even though we all just witnessed United to have no problem changing terms imposed during
bankruptcy; but there are plenty of interested parties with a lot on the line if AA fails.
Engine and aircraft manufacturers and lease holders among others.
They are the main reason, along with bankruptcy judges, that certain airlines are still around.
WingNaPrayer
Veteran
The difference is, UAUA was not facing the fuel costs they are today when they went into, and came out of, BK. AA is. That makes a big difference to lenders, IMHO.
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