Corporate Security Raids LGA Locker Room

[The Goose]

snip ...

I refuse to believe that I am the only one who has ever written to the likes of Arpey, Horton and Garton regarding employee treatment, compensation and benefits, and the fact that the lack thereof is reflected in the level of service I receive for my money today, vs., what I received for it ten years ago. In fact, I know I am not the only one who has forwarded such concerns to the leaders of your company. I like to think it makes a difference - I want it to make a difference.

snip ...

I'd personally like to thank you for your concern and letter writing campaign, but - if you did take the time to write a note, you obviously haven't any idea what manner of person(s) you're attempting to reason with.

Unless you are able to make a convincing arguement that employee treatment and therefore better customer relations can be quantified and included in a balance sheet per GAAP rules, you and the others will be ignored by the executive trash at the helm of the company. These dolts are bean counters, not businessmen.

Non-tangible items, especially those dealing with consideration for the great unwashed, are only considered by American's (mis)management with regard to finding a way around dealing with us as human beings instead of a brainless commodity and resorting to trickery rather than good-faith negotiations.

 

[DalMD88]

Those of you on the anti sleeping side are correct. We mechanics should be out there on the airplanes until the plane is ready to taxi, maybe even go fly with it.

I have a plan for all those "lost" hours in the wee am. After each mechanic finishes his assigned workload he will report to the lead for his next task. The Lead will have a hat with part numbers in it. One will be drawn and it shall be the mechanic's tasks to go back to his airplane and change said part. We are now giving 8 hours work for 8 hours pay. As an added benefit it will force the back shops to add personnel to overhaul all the parts we change under the new system.

 

[1AA]

Clearly, many of you will continue to say whatever it takes to convince (mostly yourselves) that you are justified for sleeping on the job.

Until it is written in your contract, there is no justification.


1AA - as far as your rant goes, you're being typical. American Airlines f*&@ed you over and now whatever you want to do is justified. Downsizing, wage cutting, salary slashing and work rule changes are the song of the day in corporate America. They do what they have to do in order to stay in business or they ship the business, and the jobs, overseas - it really is that simple.

You don't have to convince me that post 9/11 you got a miserable deal from AMR because I know you did. However, I am not the one that approved the deal, your union/membership did. I'm not the one that proposed the deal, AMR/Union Officials did. I'm also not the one that sets pricing, which inherently controls your compensation. You would be hard pressed to find a post from me where I don't espouse the fact that AMR's executives are greedy bastards and the minions aren't paid a fraction of what they should be. I agree with all that and I say it often.

That being said - you are attacking for one reason, and one reason only; some of your union brothers broke the rules, got caught and were dealt with for doing so. Your position appears to be that I shouldn't be concerned about it because I don't know what it takes to do your job, or the jobs of any of your counterparts. Believe me when I tell you that it IS the concern of the people outside the system, i.e., your customers, that can make a difference. I refuse to believe that I am the only one who has ever written to the likes of Arpey, Horton and Garton regarding employee treatment, compensation and benefits, and the fact that the lack thereof is reflected in the level of service I receive for my money today, vs., what I received for it ten years ago. In fact, I know I am not the only one who has forwarded such concerns to the leaders of your company. I like to think it makes a difference - I want it to make a difference. You on the other hand appear to believe that I, and others like me should just shut the hell up about it because we don't know what it takes to do your job? Why does the phrase 'hypocritical horse's ass' come to mind?

The fact is, customers don't have to know what it takes to do your job to express concerns over how a company treats it's labor force, how it compensates them, or things like sleeping on the clock. I don't care that someone finishes assigned duties early, that does not give them carte blanche to go sleep for a few hours, especially when it is specifically forbidden by company policy. What it does is gives them an indication that perhaps they should report back to superiors to see if there is anything else to do to earn the balance of that shift's pay. Maybe these 8 guys did, and maybe their superiors said "nothing left to do, go kick back in the locker room" and only time will tell that tale. My gut instinct though, is that scenario isn't what happened at all, or they wouldn't have been paraded out the door.

So if I post something in the future on this board that is in support of labor at AMR, just keep in mind that from this point forward, I am supporting all the employees at AA . . . except you. That way neither of us will have to feel bad about any given situation being discussed as far as it concerns or affects you.

There are a lot of employees at AA that got, and are feeling, short changed since the sweeping reforms of 2003. However, many of you got to vote on those changes, and you accepted them as a represented group. More employees than not at AA, had no say whatsoever regarding their pay and benefit changes, AA just sent them all group memos through the system saying this is how it is, we're cutting your wages, taking away sick days, taking away holidays, taking away a week of vacation (which some had already used and had to actually give money back to the company!) and there will be no discussion. Oh, but they 'regretted' doing it to them.

I think that kind of situation would have pissed you union folks off even more. I mean, look how riled up some of you get when your counterparts are caught red handed violating company policy. The company has the audacity to enforce policy that has stood for years.

How dare they!

T4C - Bite me!

You are the one ranting. I never mentioned about sleeping. YOU mentioned whipping aircraft and I gave you a typical everyday explanation why some jobs are accomplished quicker than others. You seem to know plenty about AA and their top people. All the concessions took its toll on my fellow employees and they are all emotionally tired of working with what they have left. Many have two jobs by choice but necessary to survive. BTW, my name is not Mr.ED and I do not appreciate being called a horses ass. You seem to be against the moral attitude of the employees because we are all trying to survive. I resent your comment about be fu over. I do not know you and your choice of words is offensive. I never said it and you assumed it. I will not step down to your level of thinking. We work with what we have.

If you feel that sending work overseas is an option or choice that American should take then so be it. There is bad blood about overseas work. No accountability and shotty work. Even outsourced work here in the US at some cheapo priced non-licensed facilities have their issues. Jet blu Airbus nose gear, United Airbus nose gear, NWA 747 belly landing, United 747 engine failure. These are some that come to mind on aircraft right out out outsourced overhaul. Plenty more. These where simple mistakes in work ethics. The outsourced vendors work on schedule demands. They get a flat rate to do the job in so many days. After that they lose money. In house maintenance is done in house on our own aircraft. Yes we make mistakes as well but rare compared to outsourcing. We follow our own procedures much better since it is our aircraft and our job to do so. The rules are different with outsourcing. But I guess you do not understand this being an outsider or do you?

I could care less if you do not support me, I do not know you and care not too. I am only concerned with doing my job so people like you can get to your destination safely. That is why I was hired by American Airlines not the TWU. Stop assuming or make accusations about me that are false.

The next time you fly on any commercial flight and leave on time and arrive safely you can thank the MANY people involved in moving that piece of metal including people like me and my fellow technicians.

And with that I leave you with one saying that hits home. Fly cheap, die cheap. So sad....

 

[1AA]

Those of you on the anti sleeping side are correct. We mechanics should be out there on the airplanes until the plane is ready to taxi, maybe even go fly with it.

I have a plan for all those "lost" hours in the wee am. After each mechanic finishes his assigned workload he will report to the lead for his next task. The Lead will have a hat with part numbers in it. One will be drawn and it shall be the mechanic's tasks to go back to his airplane and change said part. We are now giving 8 hours work for 8 hours pay. As an added benefit it will force the back shops to add personnel to overhaul all the parts we change under the new system.

Sarcasm of course.

Sure go ahead and take an aircraft that is ready to go in the morning and start volunteering to change more parts and then you know what happens? Well anyone know the answer. Oh, Oh, Oh, pick me, pick me. I know the answer. You open up a can of worms and you always run into the possibility of a problem that will cost you and your airline an ON-TIME departure. Just because you have a few hours left means nothing. The job is done and the product is ready to go in the morning. That is what we are in business for. But I guess the people that do not understand the reality of our work see it another way.

 

[mrman]

NH Bears can you educate me? As someone from DFW area, it seems these issues, and issues such as the recent NY customs issues seem to always happen in the NY area. Why is this? Would you see this "sleeping issue" in DFW or California? Is this a cultural thing?

 

[eolesen]

AMR makes negotiations difficult because they are looking at cutting costs. PERIOD!!
.....lots of ranting removed.....

We follow AMRs rules and regulations.

Well, I guess that's the point that's been lost on just about every AMT that has posted here...

The eight who got walked out didn't follow AMR's rules and regulations!.

And they're paying the consequences of being caught for not following the rules and regulations.

I don't care how you want to justify things, but the language is pretty clear, and dates back to CR's day. I have a 1960's version of Regs somewhere (packed away in a box for entertainment value someday...), and I'm pretty sure the language for the lower numbered rules were almost verbatim in 2006 what they were in 1966.

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

T4C - Bite me!

Are you HOT
😉
i just might
😀

 

[eolesen]

Since a few of you have probably forgotten these.... Note some of the revision dates. Those without revision dates go back to the 60's... if not earlier.

Rules of Conduct

The Company's Rules of Conduct are clear, concise statements specifying the conduct the Company and fellow employees expect of each other. The rules are posted in work areas. Violation of these rules may be grounds for dismissal.

Attendance

1. Report for work on time.

2. Call in when absent and when you expect to be late as far in advance of your scheduled starting time as possible. Three (3) consecutive days' absence without advising the Company will be grounds for dismissal. (Revision of this rule, March 1, 1972)

3. During your tour of duty, remain in the area necessary for the efficient performance of your work.

4. Remain at work until your tour of duty ends unless you are authorized to leave early.

5. Check on or off duty in the prescribed manner and for yourself only.

6. Unauthorized appearance on the premises of the Company while off duty is restricted and your presence must not interfere with the orderly work of others who are on duty.

Performance of Work

7. Follow instructions received from Managers. Insubordination will not be tolerated.

8. Use only the machines or equipment to which you are assigned or specifically authorized to operate.

9. Do not enter, climb upon, or fly Company airplanes unless authorized to do so.

10. Be sure to observe security and smoking regulations in all areas, in which you work or visit. (Revision of this rule, May 1, 1972)

11. Wear suitable clothing for your work and take pride in your neatness and appearance.

12. Cooperate with other employees, thus avoiding delays in flights and poor service to the public.

13. Avoid damaging Company property and the property of others.

14. Report any damaged property or defective work immediately upon discovery.

15. Loafing, sleeping on the job, or intentional restriction of output is prohibited.

16. Misrepresentation of facts or falsification of records is prohibited.

Safety

17. Work carefully. Observe posted or published regulations.

18. Use safety equipment.

19. Report immediately to your Manager, accidents or injury sustained on the job.

Personal Conduct

20. Be courteous and helpful to our patrons, passengers, and visitors.

21. Do not make false or slanderous statements about the Company, its employees, or patrons.

22. See that your conduct reflects credit upon American Airlines. This includes paying your just debts, thereby avoiding complaint from creditors or garnishment proceedings.

23. Conduct yourself in a moral and decent manner.

24. Consider the welfare of the Company and your fellow employees. Perform no act that is detrimental to either.

25. Reporting for or carrying on work while showing any signs of the use of intoxicants, or knowingly permitting another employee to do so, is prohibited. Testing positive for the use of intoxicants is also prohibited. (Revision of this rule, January 1, 1995)

26. Unauthorized possession or using any intoxicants on Company premises at any time, or drinking intoxicants in public while wearing a uniform with the Company emblem or insignia, is prohibited. (Revision of this rule, January 1, 1995)

27. Distributing or posting literature on Company property, or posting or removing bulletin board notices requires prior authorization of the Company.

28. Soliciting, collecting, or accepting contributions on Company time requires Company authorization.

29. The use of Company time, material, or facilities for purposes not directly related to Company business, or the removal or borrowing of Company property without permission, is prohibited. Employees are responsible for the safe keeping of corporate resources with which they have been entrusted. (Revision of this rule, September 1, 1998)

30. Gambling of any kind on Company premises is prohibited.

31. Horseplay, fighting, or scuffling on Company premises at any time is prohibited.

32. Behavior that violates the Company's Work Environment Policy, even if intended as a joke, is absolutely prohibited and will be grounds for severe corrective action, up to and including termination of employment. This includes but is not limited to, threatening, intimidating, interfering with, or abusive, demeaning or violent behavior toward, another employee, customer, contractor, or vendor, while either on or off duty. Behavior that is also hate-related will result in immediate termination of employment, regardless of length of service and prior employment. (Revision of this rule, March 20, 2002)

33. Possessing, manufacturing, distributing, dispensing, or using in any fashion (including, but not limited to, by injection, inhalation, ingestion, or application) any narcotic, barbiturate, mood-effecting, tranquilizing, or hallucinogenic substance (other than in accordance with medical authorization) in any fashion which affects or could affect judgement, performance, or safety, while either on duty or off duty is prohibited. As required by the Drug Free Work Place Act of 1988, employees must report to their Manager any convictions under a criminal drug statute for violations occurring on or off Company premises while conducting Company business within five (5) working days after the conviction. (Revision of this rule, September 5, 2000)

34. Dishonesty of any kind in relation with the Company, such as theft or pilferage of Company property, the property of other employees or property of others entrusted to the Company, or misrepresentation in obtaining employee benefits or privileges will be grounds for dismissal and where the facts warrant, prosecution to the fullest extent of the law. Employees charged with a criminal offense on or off duty may be immediately withheld from service. Any action constituting a criminal offense, whether committed on duty or off duty, will be grounds for dismissal. (Revision of this rule, April 10, 1984)

35. An employee may not seek to influence the hiring, transfer, promotion, or discipline of a relative in any way, including inquiries about such actions. Failure to abide by this rule will result in disciplinary action against the employee up to and including termination. If the infraction involves interference in the hiring of a relative, the employee's relative will not be considered for employment. (Effective March 19, 1990)

36. The possession of firearms, explosives, or other weapons on Company property, or while attempting to access secured areas, aircraft, or Company property, or knowingly permitting another employee to do so, is strictly prohibited. This includes both on and off duty periods. (Revision of this rule, January 1, 1995). Note: U.S. Department of Homeland Security, Transportation Security Administration (TSA) and it's applicable rules and regulations, govern the Federal Flight Deck Officers (FFDO) program.

37. Abuse of travel privileges will be grounds for dismissal. (Effective September 1, 1998)

 

[DalMD88]

NH Bears can you educate me? As someone from DFW area, it seems these issues, and issues such as the recent NY customs issues seem to always happen in the NY area. Why is this? Would you see this "sleeping issue" in DFW or California? Is this a cultural thing?

This is pretty much how it is industry wide for Line Maintenance. Union or not. I've been doing this for 18 years. I've worked for a few airlines in different parts of the country and this is the norm. That is why I don't understand the outrage. I also can't understand that they would fire 8 guys at LGA. I know for DL that is the hardest station to keep mechanics at in the entire system. We are lucky to have that many there on a nightly basis.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

So, you think making a side-deal that contradicts AA's rules & regulations is OK?...

What's next -- allowing FA's at BOS to take their commission directly out of the deposit envelope "just to keep the peace"?

Or allow some locations to resume their practice of putting up a noose in the breakroom as a symbol of unity and comradery?


I'll say it again -- just because the planned work is done doesn't mean there's not other stuff that could be assigned by MOC or by looking at deferrals in the logbooks.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


GOTCHA ERIC........................."GOTCHA REAL GOOD"........................................

Quote(eolesen):

"So you think making a side-deal that Contradicts AA Rules and Regs. is OK " ??

Eric, since YOU and I KNOW what I'm about to CONFRONT YOU with is TRUE,.......Maybe, just MAYBE, you will EXPLAIN to some of the "regulars" here(like Hopeful, Bob Owens, WNP, Time for a change, AMFAMan etc.)...Why it was OK for BOSTON......... FSC/AF,/ STORES to be EXEMPT from the "RULES" you are SO QUICK to defend ?

Pointed Question(s)

"WHY was those area's in BOS allowed to/are ..DRINK BOOZE......."OPENLY" with Managements OK(from the GM, all the way down to the lowest ramp supervisor) ???????????????????????????????????

NON-ACTION by management equals CONDONEMENT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11


"WHY was/is those area's in BOS......ALLOWED to GAMBLE(with $$$$$$$$ in PLAIN SIGHT, on the tables)....With MANAGEMENTS OK ?????????????????????????

NON-ACTION by MANAGEMENT equals CONDONEMENT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




WE are ALL waiting ERIC..(with baited breath) for your EXCUSE, or SPIN ..to my pointed Questions to you.


"Tick...Tick...Tick...Tick...Tick"

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

NH Bears can you educate me? As someone from DFW area, it seems these issues, and issues such as the recent NY customs issues seem to always happen in the NY area. Why is this? Would you see this "sleeping issue" in DFW or California? Is this a cultural thing?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

mrman,...Yes, I'll be glad to give you my take, on the question you ask.

You pretty much answered your own question,..........that for the most part, it IS a Cultural thing.

In this country(for better or worse) the following City(areas) are the Toughest/Hardest in the USA.

BOS/PVD/NHV(new Haven CT./N Y C /EWR/PHL/DTW/PIT/CLE
(I don't say this in a bragging manner. .....It just IS what it IS)

All of the above mentioned cities fall within the HARD CORE UNION "triangle(BOS south to PHL, Northwest up to Detroit, then East back to BOS !

"For the most part", Chicago should be included with-in that area as well.

The MAFIA had a strangle hold over that triangle, and though the "traditional Italian Mafia" has been broken up, It's still pretty much business as Usual !

Hope that helps.

As for AA, .....they LEPT at the chance to re-locate HDQ's to Texas /Oklahoma, Knowing FULL WELL that the MAJORITY of the residents their(even if the majority is %50.1) are HIGHLY..."UN-LIKELY" to put up a FIGHT with Management.
Consequently, the TWU Air Transport Division followed AA to Texas as well.
THE REST (TWU) IS (SAD) HISTORY.

Had AA still be headquartered in NYC, plus the TWUATD as well, 1/2 the SH!T thats has gone against the Membership, since AA moved To TEX-A$$, would NEVER EVER been Tolerated !!

 

[WingNaPrayer]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


GOTCHA ERIC........................."GOTCHA REAL GOOD"........................................

Well, NHB, since there is no such word as 'condonement' I am going to go ahead and assume you mean "Implied Consent" As in By his failure to take action, it is implied that the manager gave his consent to his subordinates for the activity, without his actually giving a verbal consent.

It's a stretch, but it might work. First, the "8" have to prove a manager knew they had been regularly sleeping on the job - very dangerous thing to do and admit. If you loose that argument, you've implicated yourself in multiple infractions of a rule. Next, they would have to show that the manager not only knew, but told them it was ok. If such were the case, don't you think that manager would have come forward by now and emphatically stated "I told them it was ok to sleep once their work was done"? I don't think that's the case. And whether or not they can produce 100 other employees who all said they slept regularly with management's consent, implied or otherwise, won't help a bit and I don't think others will implicate themselves by coming forward and admitting to sleeping on the job also.

Whether or not these "8" are being used as scapegoats to send ripple effects of warning across the system - well, the damage is done. If management approved their actions, it still doesn't lift their burden of violating company policy. It just means they won't go down alone, their managers will be right next to them.

Corporate has every right to enforce a policy, or deal with a policy infraction the instant they learn about it, even if their manager has consented to it's violation. Corporate merely states that no manager has the authorization to change any of the Rules of Conduct without company approval.

This is still 'case closed' and I've seen no argument here yet that reverses that decision.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

WNP,

"Condonement" !........................Thanx for the correction.

I use spell checker 98% of the time.

THIS time I did NOT,...........................My bad !

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

Corporate has every right to enforce a policy, or deal with a policy infraction the instant they learn about it, even if their manager has consented to it's violation. Corporate merely states that no manager has the authorization to change any of the Rules of Conduct without company approval.

If an AA manager actually acknowledged consent it would indeed make a difference.

If the union takes it to arbitration a managers consent would weigh heavily in the mechanics favor. Corporates attempt to disavow the offending manager, by way of his inability to change Rules of Conduct, wouldn't make a difference.

 

[WingNaPrayer]

If an AA manager actually acknowledged consent it would indeed make a difference.

Perhaps, but probably not, especially if managers don't have the authority to change Rules of Conduct and never have had it. There are certain things the company reserves to itself and changing or altering Rules of Conduct would be one of them. Every company has rules of conduct and they stick to them like glue, mostly for liability purposes.