Count your Blessings AA f/a's

[Hackman]

For your sake, I hope I'm wrong....but, every indicator tells me that you are going to be mighty disappointed if you actually believe that your pension is going to be intact at retirement (unless you are 59 years old!)

You mean to tell me after the twu saved 10,000 jobs and three maintenance bases by gutting the contract and saddling us with massive concessions, they are going let management take our pension too???

Why...I'm simply shocked!!!

 

[Wretched Wrench]

, every indicator tells me that you are going to be mighty disappointed if you actually believe that your pension is going to be intact at retirement

What are those indicators?

However, the decision I was talking about was quite "a while back", as stated in the post. At that time, I had no reason to be unsure of my pension.

 

[eolesen]

By the way what do you mean he was boxed in at AA? He could have moved to another position at AA. Lets say CFO.

It's pretty simple -- aside from Carmine's job or maybe Bob Reding's (extreme long shot), there wasn't anywhere for him to promote to.

CFO?? I hope that was a joke. If you're Gerard Arpey, and you've got fairly experienced finance folks like Doug Herring or Beverly Goulet already in VP positions, why on earth look anywhere else? Even Will Green (VP-M&E Finance/Planning) is more qualified to be the CFO than Hall would have been. I suppose he could have moved sideways into Safety or Ops Analysis, but those wouldn't be the same type of challenge as being SVP. Plus, there's still nowhere to go from there.

 

[777 fixer]

It's pretty simple -- aside from Carmine's job or maybe Bob Reding's (extreme long shot), there wasn't anywhere for him to promote to.

CFO?? I hope that was a joke. If you're Gerard Arpey, and you've got fairly experienced finance folks like Doug Herring or Beverly Goulet already in VP positions, why on earth look anywhere else? Even Will Green (VP-M&E Finance/Planning) is more qualified to be the CFO than Hall would have been. I suppose he could have moved sideways into Safety or Ops Analysis, but those wouldn't be the same type of challenge as being SVP. Plus, there's still nowhere to go from there.

It was meant more as a rhetorical question more than anything. Noticed that you did not comment about Greg Hall not being that big of a loss.

Yes I know there are others more qualified. I was trying to make a point. Since you seem to firmly believe that AA M&E should bring on supervisors and managers with no expereince I thought the same should apply to other dept as well. You mentione a side ways move to Safety or Ops, why not a side ways move to finance?

 

[eolesen]

Yes I know there are others more qualified. I was trying to make a point. Since you seem to firmly believe that AA M&E should bring on supervisors and managers with no expereince I thought the same should apply to other dept as well. You mentione a side ways move to Safety or Ops, why not a side ways move to finance?

A key difference is that the bench is deeper in those departments. It's not uncommon to have 20 candidates for a manager's job in any given area outside of maintenance. Second hand, L5 and L6 positions in M&E usually have ten or fewer candidates.

Y'all are the ones complaining about the quality of the VP's, directors and managers in maintenance, and I happen to agree with that observation.

However, whenever that topic has come up, it's a pretty common response that there's no incentive for an A&P to go into management, so the guys who apply are usually mediocre at best and on a power trip. When lists are short, warm bodies get promoted who might not otherwise be promoted into a management position (I've seen the same thing in Dispatch and other departments with license requirements).


So... if you're not willing to see a financial incentive for supervisors or managers by offering higher salaries/bonuses, and you're not willing to consider letting people without the A&P manage AMT's, then how exactly to you propose fixing the problem of having poor managers in maintenance????

When you keep promoting people who have been immersed in a dysfunctional culture from the beginning, how do you ever expect the culture to change for the better?

Those are questions you have to answer, not me.

 

[777 fixer]

However, whenever that topic has come up, it's a pretty common response that there's no incentive for an A&P to go into management, so the guys who apply are usually mediocre at best and on a power trip. When lists are short, warm bodies get promoted who might not otherwise be promoted into a management position (I've seen the same thing in Dispatch and other departments with license requirements).

So... if you're not willing to see a financial incentive for supervisors or managers by offering higher salaries/bonuses, and you're not willing to consider letting people without the A&P manage AMT's, then how exactly to you propose fixing the problem of having poor managers in maintenance????

And there's the reason why you don't have people without A&P licences working as supervisors or managers in M&E. The license requirement.

As I have already told you the management types I have seen who have their "ticket" but no experience are preety much worthless. Now lets say for the sake of argument you were to allow people without licences be supervisors or managers in M&E. First of all who is going to want to make the move? Most of your maintenance as we all know is done at night. Why would someone with absolutely no experience in M&E want to give up working days so they can have the privelage of working nights in maintenance.

Guess the simple answer would be to offer financial incentives. However as we have seen financial incentives are few and far between nowadays.

 

[AstroLounge]

Isn't it amazing how all the BIG companies have the same problems? I have worked in this industry for 26 years and have noticed "every dog has its day". AA is still a good airline (and no I don't work here) but what you need to know is IF they are looking for TOP TALENT to manage the masses.......Look No Further than the former executive team at USAirways, a collective group of BOZOS that could star in a present day version of "The Gong Show"....ding!