Crandall Opens Yap Again

[FA Mikey]

Until they get a better grip on utilization of current assets. I am unwilling to even consider a cut in pay or willing to work the more days a week or month for no additional pay.

 

[FA Mikey]

Well, if increasing productivity or cutting wages isn't acceptable, what is AMR to do? They can't cut lease rates more than they already have under threat of Chapter 11, and they can't do anything about the price of fuel. There is nothing left to cut!

Are you people saying that you would prefer that AMR go bankrupt just to see the executives suffer? Labor would suffer, too.

I'll be perfectly honest -- I don't work for AMR (though I do have a relative who does), and I don't own shares of AMR. So, go ahead and do whatever you want. Shoot yourself in the foot, and I'll read about it right here.

So now low should my salary go? How much more should I be expected top cut to make management salary bonus happen? There are still billions to be saved in proper utilization of airplanes, crews, and other EQ. There are millions wasted daily in out dated and unworkable procedures. Management refuses to acknowledge there uselessness. It more than cutting pay benefits of working class people. Its cutting the fat and the waste in this giant company.

FA Mikey, this isn't about making the executives bonuses bigger, it's about AMR turning a profit. AMR cannot continue to lose money indefinitely, or they will have to declare Chapter 7.

Please provide some examples of wasted aircraft and crew utilization.

For this month Miami Domestic bid contains almost 2000 hoours of pay and credit. That paid for not working lines built by the company. We have more planes than we need to do our schedule. Drive past any of our hubs and see planes parked at the hangar, Not for maintenance. Just waiting to be rotated in for another plane in a day or two.

 

[WingNaPrayer]

Swinging this back on topic a bit...What Crandall said was:

"If the legacy carriers can get their costs down, they will prevail," he said. "Labor's what you've got to cut. But it isn't a matter of cutting salaries. It's a matter of productivity."

Or does everyone view a productivity increase as a wage decrease?

Yup. Crandall also said airline workers should be expected to work more hours with less vacation

Working more hours eqates to AMR shelling out overtime. Where is the savings in that statement?

A productivity increase DOES equate to a wage decrease when you are adding more hours but not wanting to offer up additional pay for them. AMR is looking for free labor, period. When you are a salaried employee, that equation most certainly equals a wage decrease.

Example: A manager earning a salary of 32,000.00 a year, but is working 40 hours a week is earning about 16.50 an hour. That same management level employee, who's "productivity" is increased by jacking his hours up to 70 per week (which many already do) to get it all done is actually earning about 9.50 an hour.

Again, DEFINE "productivity" and forget the fact that Crandall is paid to speak like an idiot! HE hasn't defined "productivity" either. If your definition is that productivity equals more hours for the same pay, then say so. Of course you can stand there and say you didn't get a pay cut, but you're working twice as many hours and getting more done - that makes you more "productive".

AMR is looking for a way to do twice as much with half as many people - don't think for a split second they aren't. They already have a substantial investment in OneStop machines with hundreds more on order. Those machines WILL eventually displace gate and counter agents. AMR's answer has always been to rape labor. They never want to face the fact that the company's business model is broken beyond repair and that they are riding out this economic slump on "hope" and have done nothing to clean up their own waste.

Chapter 7 may be the answer. Certainly 11, if it's the only way they are going to get rid of the same assholes who put this company in the shape it's in, and are still in charge blaming labor.

Get over it - Labor is not to blame for AMR's woes. Poor corporate and executive level mis-management IS.

 

[KCFlyer]

Yet another fabulous diatribe WNP - but still no sign of an "answer". It should be easy, since you aren't willing to credit anyone with providing any viable solutions when one is presented. So...how about a solution...Who knows, Arpey may be reading the board and get an idea.

 

[WingNaPrayer]

Ummm . . . . Arpey can read??

He needs to check out a few media "diatribes" then, his airline is getting slaughtered in more places than just this forum!

I'll give him ideas, if he gives ME his paycheck and all the perks he reaps!

 

[FWAAA]

For this month Miami Domestic bid contains almost 2000 hoours of pay and credit. That paid for not working lines built by the company. We have more planes than we need to do our schedule. Drive past any of our hubs and see planes parked at the hangar, Not for maintenance. Just waiting to be rotated in for another plane in a day or two.

You may not realize it, but you're helping to prove Crandall's point.

So this month at MIA alone, FAs are being paid for almost 2,000 hours of unecessary pay? Sounds like AA could use some increased productivity out of its MIA domestic FAs.

Since management's too stupid to solve that 2,000 hour dilemna on its own, why don't you detail how AA could cut that fat? AA would probably give you something for your effort. And even if AA didn't give you squat, you'd have the satisfaction of knowing that you are helping to save the company.

Anyway, identifying inefficient utilization of unionized help means that there are still too many people on the payroll to do the necessary work, right? As I have posted time and time again, I want AA's employees to be the highest paid in the industry. But it seems fair to expect that anytime employees are the highest paid, they will also work harder for that pay. Or do you advocate high pay and gold-bricking? Of course not. So convince your co-workers to work harder.

But don't anyone complain when that equates to more layoffs.

About those planes. What do you propose AA do with them?? Everyone not living under a rock knows that the major legacy carriers currently have too many planes. That's why over 1,200 jets are currently stored in the US deserts.

As AA retires the remaining 48 F-100s, the airplane glut that you have witnessed (and that Bob Owens has harped about since March) will slowly disappear. As AA announces more domestic flying (like yesterday's news concerning increased flying at MIA), the surplus will diminish.

But right now, what should AA do with them? In economic terms, they are a sunk cost. There's no way to immediately rid themselves of the excess planes without incurring huge costs (much worse than giving them some rest, assuming that's actually happening). Sell them? To whom? Nobody's lining up to buy AA's unwanted planes.

 

[KCFlyer]

Ummm . . . . Arpey can read??

He needs to check out a few media "diatribes" then, his airline is getting slaughtered in more places than just this forum!

I'll give him ideas, if he gives ME his paycheck and all the perks he reaps!

Only goes to prove my point...tis easier to complain than it is to offer solutions. Still waiting for even one idea.

 

[FA Mikey]

Since management's too stupid to solve that 2,000 hour dilemna on its own, why don't you detail how AA could cut that fat? AA would probably give you something for your effort. And even if AA didn't give you squat, you'd have the satisfaction of knowing that you are helping to save the company.

I did. I gave them a workable solution. Putting all the A300's on the international side they would pay about 2.00 more per hour per f/a. But the net savings Vs paying the same number of people not to work is substantial. AA wrote back and in a very flip response they told me, I dont see the bigger picture, and in case I wasn't aware international f/a cannot fly domestic. Not true International can fly an unlimited amount of domestic. There are absolutely no restrictions on that written or implied. AA sees and cares about only what they want to care about. Real practicable solutions do not matter. I am left to assume the bigger picture is a continued pillage of our pay and work rules, by using examples of pay and credit in the pubic sector, to further demonize unions and unionized workers. Truth be told AA makes the sequences and build the lines we fly. AA is 100% responsible for this waste.

 

[upsilon]

WingN wrote above, "AMR is looking for a way to do twice as much with half as many people - don't think for a split second they aren't. They already have a substantial investment in OneStop machines with hundreds more on order. Those machines WILL eventually displace gate and counter agents. AMR's answer has always been to rape labor."

WingN also wrote on another thread, ".....machines didn't build American Airlines, people did, but these machines are going to end up replacing over half of the counter and gate agents that American employs, and AMR likes that! Machines don't draw paychecks, or earn benefits. This means bigger numbers on the balance sheets, which leads to bigger profit sharing checks for the executive level, plus much larger bonuses - not because they did anything spectacular, but because someone invented a one stop machine. I, for one, still prefer that one on one interraction with personnel."

I can't think of a single employer who wouldn't jump at the chance to do "twice as much with half as many people". Increased productivity is the cornerstone of the American economy and has been around since the Industrial Revolution. Today every jet AA flies is done with only two people up front. There used to be three.

If you "still prefer that one-on-one interaction with personnel", I guess you stand in line at a bank teller window to cash a check or make a deposit or payment instead of using the ATM machines. I certainly don't; and I use the self-checkout lines at Wal*Mart and other stores. Outbound I print my boarding pass at my desk and use the one-stop machines when away. I get my arrival and departure times and all sorts of other information by automated telephone voice.

By your definition this must make me an accessory to rape!

 

[JS]

I did. I gave them a workable solution. Putting all the A300's on the international side they would pay about 2.00 more per hour per f/a. But the net savings Vs paying the same number of people not to work is substantial. AA wrote back and in a very flip response they told me, I dont see the bigger picture, and in case I wasn't aware international f/a cannot fly domestic. Not true International can fly an unlimited amount of domestic. There are absolutely no restrictions on that written or implied. AA sees and cares about only what they want to care about. Real practicable solutions do not matter. I am left to assume the bigger picture is a continued pillage of our pay and work rules, by using examples of pay and credit in the pubic sector, to further demonize unions and unionized workers. Truth be told AA makes the sequences and build the lines we fly. AA is 100% responsible for this waste.

If you move aircraft around to solve one problem, you may create more problems. The A300 has a different passenger and cargo capacity and range than other aircraft AA has.

You are looking at this from one only point of view -- the flight attendants. There are a lot of factors involved besides flight attendant staffing in deciding what routes to fly, how often, and with what aircraft.

I have an suggestion for you -- work in management (I'm not being facetious). Then you wouldn't have to make suggestions about aircraft utilization. You could implement them yourself.

 

[WingNaPrayer]

It still remains unsaid - nobody has explained to me what "increased productivity" means, or at least what they think it means to AMR or even this Crandall idiot!

How do employees increase productivity? If every employee needs to increase productivity, does that mean there is a lot of work that is going left undone? Does that mean that every employee is not doing their complete job every day? How high up the food chain in AMR does this need for increased productivity go? Does it stop at agents? pilots? FAs? rampers? Does it extend to management? Level 2? 3? 4? 5? 6? 7? Jr. VPs? Sr. VPs? Executive VPs? Where does it start, and where does it end?

WHAT DOES IT (increased productivity) MEAN???


ETA: FAMikey, I liked the idea you submitted to your powers that be and, in typical fashion, they told you where to stick it. I too was not aware that I-FAs could cover domestic routes - you learn something new every day. Paying people not to work is fiscal suicide. It reminds me of the days of PILT dollars, and "incentive" payments made to farmers NOT to grow food, which the feds still do! 2000 hours is a lot of pork for one month. Surely scheduling could be a lot more efficient than that to prevent such waste. Why won't management listen to the people who actually do the work instead of sit fat-bellied behind a desk all day?

I know MY annual report to stockholder relations this year is going to be a real ear burner!

 

[KCFlyer]

What is increased productivity? Here's some ideas:

1. How many rampers are there for a flight?
2. How many flights to they work in a given 8 hour day?
3. Can the turn times be shortened?
4. How many agents work a gate?
5. Are there any jobs that mechanics are performing that could be performed by a ramp agent
6. Can flight attendants "tidy up" the plane during turns?
7. Can pilots fly more efficently?

Those are a few I can think of that wouldn't involve any overtime at all. It's called "doing more with less".

 

[FA Mikey]

If you move aircraft around to solve one problem, you may create more problems. The A300 has a different passenger and cargo capacity and range than other aircraft AA has.

You are looking at this from one only point of view -- the flight attendants. There are a lot of factors involved besides flight attendant staffing in deciding what routes to fly, how often, and with what aircraft.

I have an suggestion for you -- work in management (I'm not being facetious). Then you wouldn't have to make suggestions about aircraft utilization. You could implement them yourself.

I am not talking about moving A/C around. Simply staff the current domestic A300 flights with international f/a's. That way you can create sequences with no P&C. Instead of having a domestic crew fly from Miami to Newark layover for 22 hours then fly 1 leg home. That's flying 6 hours paid for 15. International crews can come in from San Jose and then take the flight up JFK, BOS where ever. Because International flight attendant can work both sides. There is problem building sequences around purely domestic legs.

 

[Boomer]

During the recent "negotiations" that lead to current disaster, the M&R Negotiations team proposed just what Crandall called for: they were willing to keep the wages, bennies and pensions intact BUT would increase productivity AND sanction layoffs.

AA and the TWU International refused that approach.

So much for Unions being unwilling to change and so much for AA being willing to accept such a change.

 

[upsilon]

Naturally Boomer, it would have meant less members and dues dollars to their coffers.

Anyone who has any knowledge of industrial union staff heirarchy knows it is as swollen and as selfish as the claims by members about the management of the company that pays them.

Management probably didn't believe the union would come through with the promises.