Dash8-400 available immediately

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

From today's Toronto Star - it appears that SAS had another landing gear accident and decided to scrap the Q400.

STOCKHOLM, Sweden – Scandinavian Airlines has decided to permanently stop flying Bombardier (TSX: BBD.B) Q400 turboprops after a string of crash landings blamed on landing gear malfunctions, the airline's chief executive said Sunday.

rest of the story here

 

[EMBFA]

I think US should jump on this. Put the aircraft through C-checks, refurbish them and get them out there. Only the SAS group (actually just SAS itself, not Wideroe) has had problems with the aircraft. Horizon, flyBE and other big operators don't seem to be having a problem.

I've had the pleasure of flying on a Q400 with SAS and it's far far beyond what most think of as a turboprop from a passenger standpoint. US needs to get out of it's CRJ contracts... it needs the handful of CRJ200/700 PSA has, the E170/75/90/95 (should be at mainline), and then boatloads of these. It can be configured up to 74 seats but makes a profit at 40. US should configure it with 72 so it can use commuter slots at DCA and satisfy new seat upgrades at LGA.

Great airplane, should be the workhorse of the US regional fleet.

 

[cynic]

Actually other operators have had problems, though not always crashes.

FlyBE has a problem with dispatch rates, their 400s have a lot of "downtime". Horizon had some issues initially as well, not sure if they have been resolved.

Here's an article about the reliability of the Japanese airlines using them.
http://www.aviationtoday.com/am/topstories/5547.html

 

[EMBFA]

Thanks... wasn't aware of problems with other operators. I wonder if they are all landing gear issues?

 

[PHX PHLyer]

I think any carrier that would decide to inherit an entire fleet (let alone a few planes) of SAS's Q400s will be hit by the media for taking a fleet of airplanes that can't seem to stop crash landing lately. I mean....3 times in about a month is kind of ridiculous. I am never scared of flying...or skeptical...or anything like that EVER....but I wouldn't even want to fly a US Q400 if it was inherited from SAS. Those things are cursed.

I think that US should play PIMP MY PROP with Piedmont and buy up as many Q300s and Q400s for Piedmont as possible....they are great planes....but taking SAS's problem child fleet can't be a good move.

 

[cynic]

Thanks... wasn't aware of problems with other operators. I wonder if they are all landing gear issues?

According to a new survey conducted by All Nippon Airways and Japan Air Commuter, 49 of 52 recent DHC-8-400 incidents resulted from design flaws and improper repairs. Of the 52 cases, 19 were caused by failures involving landing gear. Flight control system malfunctions accounted for 11 cases. Engine problems were cited five times; door problems, five times. Four cases were related to hydraulic pressure systems, two were related to electrical equipment to maintain in-flight cabin pressure, and the remaining six were caused by other reasons. Flight control system malfunctions were mainly caused by failures in flight control computers and improper repairs of sensors on elevator control systems.
http://www.aviationtoday.com/am/topstories/5547.html

 

[flyingcat]

Isn't scope clause an issue for the Q400s?

 

[tadjr]

Isn't scope clause an issue for the Q400s?

Lets let every Tom, Dick and Harry fly around 70 and 90 seaters, but not let a Wholly Owned (possibly) fly a 74 seater. Makes sense to me. :blink: :down:

 

[Travelpro72]

I'd love to know the answer to the above question myself. I know it has been stated somewhere on these boards. It just doesn't seem to make any sense to me.

 

[BoeingBoy]

It just doesn't seem to make any sense to me.

The only thing about it that makes sense is that with the relaxations of scope in recent history (last decade or two), management was always just asking for relief on the RJ's and not the turboprops. So they only got what they asked for. Other than that, you're right - doesn't make any sense at all.

Jim

 

[Travelpro72]

Thanks Jim.

 

[FM2436]

A link to a Danish news source that includes a video of that SAS Dash-8 on final approach and skidding along the runway to a stop.

http://nyhederne.tv2.dk/krimi/article.php/...25.html?forside

 

[Dont call me Shirley]

Provided the planes go through a complete refurbishment (with special attention to the landing gear, of course) this would be a great opportunity for any carrier looking to get some Q400s quickly. Other than SK, operators have been very happy with the type. (As are passengers). It is interesting that WF is planning on keeping them.

With crude approaching USD 100/bbl, the fuel efficiency of the type is another thing in its favor.
For US, there is that silly scope thing in the way, however

 

[BoeingBoy]

(with special attention to the landing gear, of course)

According to some of the media reports, SAS completely rebuilt the gear on their Q400's before putting them back into service following the grounding last month. Also, unlike the Sept incidents, this time the gear indicated that it wasn't locked in the extended position prior to landing (again, according to media reports). So at least on the surface there appear to be differences between this latest incident and the earlier ones.

Jim

 

[EMBFA]

Scope should be changed- bring the 70+ jets back to the actual airline (maybe a grandfathering of the PSA 700s), in exchange for unlimited Q400s at the W/Os. The Q400 is large and extremely economical on former RJ routes, and can make money hand over fist inhouse rather than expensive contracts for high CASM RJs. It is also not a threat to mainline job security as it lacks the range for thr midcon routes US currently uses outside contractors for.

We know a few things- it's cheaper to operate the Embraers in house- per Doug himself. The east is stagnant and could use movement from the bottom. The RJ contracts were more about union busting than saving money- nothing is more expensive than a 50 seat jet. The Q400 is a modern, comfortable plane with fantastic economics on short haul routes like USX operates. 27 of them are going to be available quickly and cheaply. An airline W/O by US operates the largest Dash 8 fleet in the world. From here it seems to make sense for everybody.