Deal Near With Pilots.

[North by Northwest]

MINNEAPOLIS (AP)--Pilots at Northwest Airlines said a deal on concessions could come ``in the very near future,'' putting the airline within striking distance of a deal...

 

[wings396]

An once the Pilots give in, the Company will be after everyone else for Concessions.....

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

An once the Pilots give in, the Company will be after everyone else for Concessions.....

[post="189417"][/post]​

================================================

"396"

Your correct. That is why NW, like AA will be the ONLY legacies never to have gone into BK-11/7.

US, UA are "in".
DL is "in the hallway"
CO(IMHO) will be right behind DL.

Ever notice the sad pictures of a neighborhood after a hurricane, that the majority of the homes are destroyed ??
BUT, there is always a home, or two, or three, somehow left standing.

Those "standing homes" will be AA, NW, and of course WN.

NH/BB's

 

[kiowa]

how can any employee of nwa offer managment their pay when the company has squashed every rate increase the industry has proposed for the last several years. Incredible!

 

[wings396]

What remains to be seen here, is how Willing the other Unions on the property are to cooperate with Concessions. Remember that the Pilot group have much deeper pockets to give from than do the common folk on the frontlines. IF the others don't want to give, look for the Nasty "BK" word to surface. It is sad to say, but BK has become the tool of choice for other Airlines to intimidate their employees. If that doesn't scare them enough to give, Then Liquidate becomes the word of the day. I have a friend who works for NWA at a smaller station, and he has told me that the Company wants to Farm out the operation in any station with 6 or less Mainline flights a day. How many out there are going to vote for this in a new contract? NWA is going to try everthing that US & UA have accomplished with concessions. Don't be surprised if they look to Farm out Heavy MTC work as well. To stay in line with the others, it will become a game of "Monkey see, Monkey do"
On another note about NWA, please remember that they have not been subject to any of the major LCC's in their backyard YET. At some point in time the LCC's will start to invade NWA's markets and drive fares and yeilds into the basement. Don't think that Management doesn't know this, and they will want to have their costs inline with the LCC's.

 

[NWA/AMT]

Don't be surprised if they look to Farm out Heavy MTC work as well. To stay in line with the others, it will become a game of "Monkey see, Monkey do"

[post="189637"][/post]​

Been there, done that. NWA already does farm out the majority of their widebody maintenance and are already at their contractual limits for outsourcing aircraft maintenance. The AMFA contract opens for negotiations in May, 2005 and considering that NWA has showed no urgency in completing previous agreements, other than the ESOP contracts, I wouldn't expect AMFA to be in any hurry to join in on concessions.

 

[wings396]

Anything that is in the contract can be tossed out the window with the BK Judge.
This is why I say that BK has become the Legal way for a Company to go on a
Union Busting Spree. If NWA doesn't get AMFA or any others to come to the table, they will threaten to file BK in a Heartbeat. As much as I hate to say it, todays Unions in the Airline industry are near Powerless. Once you are in BK they threaten you to give or else......Yes, Liquidation or S1113 filings with the Judge.
DL will file along with some others in the Future, and why not? With UA & US obtaining Huge cost savings on wages and leases, the ones who don't will be at a disadvantege with higher costs.

 

[North by Northwest]

how can any employee of nwa offer managment their pay when the company has squashed every rate increase the industry has proposed for the last several years. Incredible!

[post="189594"][/post]​

That is your opinion. Those accross the board increases didn't serve Northwest's individual stategy. A stategy that has given us the highest yield of any major. Still...it won't be a cake walk for consessions. IMHO, the unions will emulate word for word the "investment stategy" of the pilots. "On another note about NWA, please remember that they have not been subject to any of the major LCC's in their backyard YET. At some point in time the LCC's will start to invade NWA's markets and drive fares and yeilds into the basement."This statement shows that "you know not what you speak." This is a reflection of the bewilderment of "why is NWA in a fairly sound position"....repeated over and over again. Ever hear of Southwest? ATA? Frontier? Perhaps AWA? They all have and still do, fly to DTW, MSP, and MEM...for YEARS. NWA has survived their onslaught by sheer offensive defense. Northwest is a firece competitor, it's as simple as that.

 

[North by Northwest]

Anything that is in the contract can be tossed out the window with the BK Judge.
This is why I say that BK has become the Legal way for a Company to go on a
Union Busting Spree. If NWA doesn't get AMFA or any others to come to the table, they will threaten to file BK in a Heartbeat. As much as I hate to say it, todays Unions in the Airline industry are near Powerless. Once you are in BK they threaten you to give or else......Yes, Liquidation or S1113 filings with the Judge.
DL will file along with some others in the Future, and why not? With UA & US obtaining Huge cost savings on wages and leases, the ones who don't will be at a disadvantege with higher costs.

[post="189688"][/post]​

Wings, do you understand how damaging BK is to a company? Do you understand that companies usually perish in BK. Furthermore, a company cannot "just file" for BK, they have to become insovent (look it up). It appears that many are under the MISTAKEN immpression that U and UAL will somehow end up better off after BK. That is a clear indication of misunderstanding the destruction of a BK filing. Your understanding of the process and the shake out of the industry is flawed.

 

[robbedagain]

Wings, do you understand how damaging BK is to a company? Do you understand that companies usually perish in BK. Furthermore, a company cannot "just file" for BK, they have to become insovent (look it up). It appears that many are under the MISTAKEN immpression that U and UAL will somehow end up better off after BK. That is a clear indication of misunderstanding the destruction of a BK filing. Your understanding of the process and the shake out of the industry is flawed.

[post="189750"][/post]​

well look at continental airlines. they went thru two c11 and nearly avoided a third trip before gordon bethune took over and reinvented tat airline and look at where they are now. they are a lot healthier today than say us and ua and even delta to an extent. all bk does is allow a company to reorganize while the crditors are at bay and cant do much if anything. usair is in it now because of our incompetent fearless no brains clowns couldnt figure out how navigate their way around the first time

 

[North by Northwest]

"well look at continental airlines. they went thru two c11 and nearly avoided a third trip before gordon bethune took over and reinvented tat airline and look at where they are now. they are a lot healthier today than say us and ua and even delta to an extent" CAL survived BK because of the assets of Eastern Airlines. It is HIGHLY unlikely that they would have been around with out the cash infusion transferred from EAL. TWA is a better example of what BK does to an airline. Eastern was a huge viable carrier generating a good deal of money, of which F. Lorenzo transferred to Cont., he had already destroyed the unions there. I would not use CAL as the shinning light for BK. U nor UAL do not have the luxury of cash transfers from another carrier. Braniff, Eastern, and Pan Am did not survive.

 

[wings396]

I will address both replys here. First the LCC's may operate in a few of NWA's markets, but that is nothing in comparison of what JB, SWA and AirTran are doing to US. If SWA were to set up shop in MSP or DTW, do you think NWA would be a fierce competitor with their higher costs? Fighting the LCC's in a few markets is one thing, but when they attack from all sides it is not the same. Let's face the fact that ATA and Frontier are hardly a major threat to NWA, or anyone for that matter.
AWA was a weak competitor until the last year as well. Time will tell what NWA does when things heat up.
As for the BK issue, no it is not an ideal situation for any company to be in. It is funny that after the DL pilots gave in, the BK threat went away. Since they were the only union that had to be dealt with, the rest were just handed a 10% cut afterwards. At US the company threatened BK twice, and only went that route after failed talks with the unions. They even went far enough to threaten to Liquidate, once just before the Holidays. In the pask BK may have been bad for your Image, but today you can screw your Employees and creditors all at once.
Several Airline CEO's have stated that the carriers that went the BK route would have a cost advantage over those that didn't. Over at CO, they even tossed the idea around a bit. How about AA being on the brink, and after they intimidated everyone....WAHLA...No more BK talk. I am not saying that I think NWA will file, but they Will threaten to if everyone doesn't want to give. If nobody blinks, it could happen. Look what NWA was talking before the state of MN handed them a few bucks to stay afloat a couple of years ago! It has become an industry of
" Give or Else we will file, and you will take what the Judge decides" Sad, but Very Very True.

 

[North by Northwest]

I will address both replys here. First the LCC's may operate in a few of NWA's markets, but that is nothing in comparison of what JB, SWA and AirTran are doing to US. If SWA were to set up shop in MSP or DTW, do you think NWA would be a fierce competitor with their higher costs? Fighting the LCC's in a few markets is one thing, but when they attack from all sides it is not the same. Let's face the fact that ATA and Frontier are hardly a major threat to NWA, or anyone for that matter.
AWA was a weak competitor until the last year as well. Time will tell what NWA does when things heat up.
As for the BK issue, no it is not an ideal situation for any company to be in. It is funny that after the DL pilots gave in, the BK threat went away. Since they were the only union that had to be dealt with, the rest were just handed a 10% cut afterwards. At US the company threatened BK twice, and only went that route after failed talks with the unions. They even went far enough to threaten to Liquidate, once just before the Holidays. In the pask BK may have been bad for your Image, but today you can screw your Employees and creditors all at once.
Several Airline CEO's have stated that the carriers that went the BK route would have a cost advantage over those that didn't. Over at CO, they even tossed the idea around a bit. How about AA being on the brink, and after they intimidated everyone....WAHLA...No more BK talk. I am not saying that I think NWA will file, but they Will threaten to if everyone doesn't want to give. If nobody blinks, it could happen. Look what NWA was talking before the state of MN handed them a few bucks to stay afloat a couple of years ago! It has become an industry of
" Give or Else we will file, and you will take what the Judge decides" Sad, but Very Very True.

[post="189768"][/post]​

SW has been in DTW/MEM for years. Northwest just responds differently than the other majors. In BK the airline only lasts as long as the judge protects it from the demands of it's creditors. When the creditors deciede they want their planes back... it's over.

 

[wings396]

Still, that is only a fraction of the NWA system with SWA as a competitor. SWA has chosen to attack the weak first, but only time will tell who will be next after that is accomplished.

 

[Kev3188]

SW has been in DTW/MEM for years.

[post="189773"][/post]​

NxNW--

Sorry to nitpick, but there is no LUV in Shelby County....Not for lack of trying , though. I seem to remember passing a billboard on the freeway that said, "Hey Herb, Please fly here!" on the way to work every afternoon......