BillLumbergh
Veteran
[SPAN class=headline][A href=http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/021118/atm005_1.html]Delta Air Lines Announces Changes in Its Retirement Plan[/A][/SPAN]
Delta Air Lines Announces Changes in Its Retirement Plan
- Thread starter BillLumbergh
- Start date
NewHampshire Black Bears
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 10,154
- 681
I first read this story( earlier today)in the WSJ(hardly a proponent of unions, or for that fact, the working man/women)
But what the WSJ made perfectly clear to me, was that DL WOULD NOT pull this stunt on It's Unionized pilots.
WHY ?????/
This is especially hard for the non-union employee who has a lot of years of service, and plans on working until traditional retirement age.
Example;
A Guy/gal hired at 20, who is now age 50, with 30 years in the pension plan. If this person stays working until 62, he/she would have 42 years in the plan. If this person leaves DL in the next 7 years, he/she can choose either plan. If he/she DOESNT retire within 7 years, then DL says (to it's non-union people) So sorry. If you don't like it, don't let the door hit you in the ass, on the WAY OUT the door !!!!
Question:
Why should DL be allowed to treat it's employees that way ??
Question:
When are you DL non-union folks going to STOP TURNING THE OTHER CHEEK ???
Question:
When is ENOUGH, ENOUGH ???????????
NH/BB's
AA/AFL-CIO
But what the WSJ made perfectly clear to me, was that DL WOULD NOT pull this stunt on It's Unionized pilots.
WHY ?????/
This is especially hard for the non-union employee who has a lot of years of service, and plans on working until traditional retirement age.
Example;
A Guy/gal hired at 20, who is now age 50, with 30 years in the pension plan. If this person stays working until 62, he/she would have 42 years in the plan. If this person leaves DL in the next 7 years, he/she can choose either plan. If he/she DOESNT retire within 7 years, then DL says (to it's non-union people) So sorry. If you don't like it, don't let the door hit you in the ass, on the WAY OUT the door !!!!
Question:
Why should DL be allowed to treat it's employees that way ??
Question:
When are you DL non-union folks going to STOP TURNING THE OTHER CHEEK ???
Question:
When is ENOUGH, ENOUGH ???????????
NH/BB's
AA/AFL-CIO
NHBB,
As one that was raised, in part, by pay provided by Delta; I can say that the group-think among the grey beards still exists. They still believe.
As for the Aircraft Mechanics, the Ramp and the Flight Attendants; who knows what they think, all have opted for the protection of the big umbrella. Trouble is; the current storm has those that hold the umbrella nervous and they are gladly allowing the fringe a soaking so that the core stays dry.
As one that was raised, in part, by pay provided by Delta; I can say that the group-think among the grey beards still exists. They still believe.
As for the Aircraft Mechanics, the Ramp and the Flight Attendants; who knows what they think, all have opted for the protection of the big umbrella. Trouble is; the current storm has those that hold the umbrella nervous and they are gladly allowing the fringe a soaking so that the core stays dry.
NewHampshire Black Bears
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 10,154
- 681
Boomer,
Thanx for your response.
I could easily sit (over) here, at AA, and mind my own business(YEAH RIGHT!), and not worry what happens to DL employees.
But it burns my Butt to no end, to think that someone like LEO the LIGHTBULB can get away with pulling this SH*T, because he know's D*MN WELL that he can, BECAUSE the (still) majority of employees have NO FIGHT in them.
(Seriously), my heart goes out to the DL employee, who DID vote for union(protection), even though that person really did'nt want to(due to his/her culture), but did so anyway, only to be underminded by the Jim Jones-Kool Aid drinkers !!!!
Boomer, I don't know if your a son/daughter of the south, or not. But I swear, I'll never understand southern mentality, when it's brutally obvious that the Master is TAKING AWAY a loyal workers (ultimate) quality of life !!
We all know, that if DL was more unionized, ol' LEO would'nt have the intestinal fortitude to attempt this kind of CRAP !!!!!!!!!
Regards,
NH/BB's
AA/AFL-CIO
Thanx for your response.
I could easily sit (over) here, at AA, and mind my own business(YEAH RIGHT!), and not worry what happens to DL employees.
But it burns my Butt to no end, to think that someone like LEO the LIGHTBULB can get away with pulling this SH*T, because he know's D*MN WELL that he can, BECAUSE the (still) majority of employees have NO FIGHT in them.
(Seriously), my heart goes out to the DL employee, who DID vote for union(protection), even though that person really did'nt want to(due to his/her culture), but did so anyway, only to be underminded by the Jim Jones-Kool Aid drinkers !!!!
Boomer, I don't know if your a son/daughter of the south, or not. But I swear, I'll never understand southern mentality, when it's brutally obvious that the Master is TAKING AWAY a loyal workers (ultimate) quality of life !!
We all know, that if DL was more unionized, ol' LEO would'nt have the intestinal fortitude to attempt this kind of CRAP !!!!!!!!!
Regards,
NH/BB's
AA/AFL-CIO
KCFlyer
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 11,221
- 1,425
NHBB - As a child of the south, would it be better for the massah to sell the plantation to fund a pension plan and let go of many of the workers, or would it be better to save homestead and retain as many of the indentured servants as possible? Especially when 90% of the workers out there do not have a defined benefit plan, but rather a cash balance plan. And who would have thought that the stock market in the late 70's would have ever turned into the stock market of the 90's? Many of those slaves might stand a very good chance of getting plantation of their own in their golden years with a cash balance plan. I know it doesn't look that way now, but one never knows, do we? FWIw - I actually do have a defined benefit pension plan where I work. Judging from past history (my father in law worked for the same entity I do, and who had the same defined benefit plan), I'd better keep up good relations with my daughter as I might just end up living with her in my golden years, just as my in-laws are living with me.
grndproxwarning
Member
- Oct 14, 2002
- 85
- 0
I wouldnt worry to much about DL if I were you,
You got one big TIGER by the tail to tame in DFWHDQ
Your Storm clouds are just starting to brew!!!
You will be lucky if AA has any money left in yours
when they get through screwing with it!!!
Just my opinion
Kinda wish we had some of that GARBAGE TRAFFIC back now HUH AA REV MANAGEMENT..Low yield no yield
You got one big TIGER by the tail to tame in DFWHDQ
Your Storm clouds are just starting to brew!!!
You will be lucky if AA has any money left in yours
when they get through screwing with it!!!
Just my opinion
Kinda wish we had some of that GARBAGE TRAFFIC back now HUH AA REV MANAGEMENT..Low yield no yield
NHBB, KC Flyer,
The Union thing is hard to decipher. In the South many of the Coal Miners were UMWA and very militant, with the relocation of automotive manufacturing from the rust belt and overseas to the South even more jobs are now Union. The problem with the two examples is that both experienced opposite ends: the militant UMWA has seen most if not all mines closed and production relocated overseas while UAW experiences stable, continued growth with foreign automakers(BMW, Mercedes, Toyota, Honda)who point out the quality and dedication of the unionized workforce.
As far as the Delta switch on pension plans, it would be interesting to see if Management took the same hit they are implementing on their employees.
The Union thing is hard to decipher. In the South many of the Coal Miners were UMWA and very militant, with the relocation of automotive manufacturing from the rust belt and overseas to the South even more jobs are now Union. The problem with the two examples is that both experienced opposite ends: the militant UMWA has seen most if not all mines closed and production relocated overseas while UAW experiences stable, continued growth with foreign automakers(BMW, Mercedes, Toyota, Honda)who point out the quality and dedication of the unionized workforce.
As far as the Delta switch on pension plans, it would be interesting to see if Management took the same hit they are implementing on their employees.
After a little rough math I figured the difference between the two plans. I used a current topped out mechanic's wage for the calculations. Over the next 20 years I bet we'll get some raises so the actual values will change for both plans.
With the current plan I would get 70% of my final average earnings. That comes out to about $49,000 a year. Let's assume I live 20years after I retire at age 65. During my retirement I would collect about $980,000. Under the new and improved plan I would have a cash balance of about $365,000 when I reach 65 in 2015. If I continue to get a 5% rate of return on my money and draw the same $49,000 a year I will be broke in about nine years. To make up the difference I'll have to take a pay cut of about 4% a year by adding that much to my 401k.
If I was under 35years of age on the start of the plan the numbers would be much worse. Delta is only funding those employees 6% while I get 8%.
With the current plan I would get 70% of my final average earnings. That comes out to about $49,000 a year. Let's assume I live 20years after I retire at age 65. During my retirement I would collect about $980,000. Under the new and improved plan I would have a cash balance of about $365,000 when I reach 65 in 2015. If I continue to get a 5% rate of return on my money and draw the same $49,000 a year I will be broke in about nine years. To make up the difference I'll have to take a pay cut of about 4% a year by adding that much to my 401k.
If I was under 35years of age on the start of the plan the numbers would be much worse. Delta is only funding those employees 6% while I get 8%.
NewHampshire Black Bears
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 10,154
- 681
KCFlyer(you ol' son-of-the-south, you)
You've got a defined PP, you voted for Al gore, you voted for a Dem in KS., (your words), you were raised in a Democratic household(your dad).
Question;
Are you sure, your not a yankee/democrat, in a rebs clothing ??????????????????
[img src='http://www.usaviation.com/idealbb/images/smilies/11.gif'] [img src='http://www.usaviation.com/idealbb/images/smilies/9.gif'] [img src='http://www.usaviation.com/idealbb/images/smilies/11.gif'] [img src='http://www.usaviation.com/idealbb/images/smilies/9.gif']
regards,
NH/BB's
You've got a defined PP, you voted for Al gore, you voted for a Dem in KS., (your words), you were raised in a Democratic household(your dad).
Question;
Are you sure, your not a yankee/democrat, in a rebs clothing ??????????????????
[img src='http://www.usaviation.com/idealbb/images/smilies/11.gif'] [img src='http://www.usaviation.com/idealbb/images/smilies/9.gif'] [img src='http://www.usaviation.com/idealbb/images/smilies/11.gif'] [img src='http://www.usaviation.com/idealbb/images/smilies/9.gif']
regards,
NH/BB's
